Self-Priority Is Stewardship Not Selfishness-Interview with Otanthia Williams-Brady

Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_02
0:17

Welcome
to
Patty's
Place,
a
place
where
we're
going
to
talk
about
grief,
dementia,
and
caregiving.
I'm
your
host,
Lisa.
I
started
this
podcast
in
honor
of
my
mom,
Pat,
who
passed
away
almost
three
years
ago
from
dementia.
I
want
this
to
be
a
place
where
you
know
you're
not
alone,
and
we
can
talk
about
all
the
difficult
subjects
that
nobody
ever
really
wants
to
talk
about.
So
grab
your
cup
of
tea,
your
cup
of
coffee
if
you're
having
that
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine,
and
let's
get
talking

Meet Otanthea And The Big Question

SPEAKER_02
0:39

today.
I'm
excited
today
for
our
guest.
Her
name
is
Otanthea
Williams
Brady,
and
she's
a
sports-certified
nurse
practitioner,
certified
life
coach,
and
host
of
the
Making
Space
For
Me
podcast,
which
is
so
hard
for
caregivers.
So
welcome
to
Patty's
Place.

SPEAKER_00
0:57

Thank
you,
thank
you,
thank
you
for
having
me
on.

SPEAKER_02
1:00

Because
I
think
that
is
probably
one
of
the
hardest
things
for
a
caregiver
to
do
with
it.
So
why
do
you
think
so
many
women
especially
struggle
to
care
for
themselves,
even
though
they
know
they
need
to
do
it?

SPEAKER_00
1:16

Um
I
feel
like
a
lot
of
women
struggle
so
much
to
care
for
themselves
even
when
they
know
they
need
to
do
it.
It's
just
because
we
were
taught
how
to
be
responsible
for
everyone
else.
It's
just
kind
of
what
part
of
our
upbringing
and
learning
how
to
be,
you
know,
a
woman,
a
wife,
a
mama,
things
of
that
sort.
But
I
don't
feel
like
no
one
ever
really
taught
us
how
to
care
for
ourselves.
We
were
taught
to
kind
of
show
up,
fulfill
our
obligations,
handle
what
needs
to
be
handled,
but
no
one
ever
really
taught
you,
you
know,
taking
time
for
you.
And
I
think
we
just
kind
of
we
get
into
this
mode
of
doing
just
because
that's
what
we
know
to
do.
And
by
the
time
we
get
finished
kind
of
taking
care
of
everybody
and
everything
else,
we
just
don't
have
like
the
time,
the
energy,
or
even
the
resources
to
kind
of
pour
back
into
ourselves.
So
we
kind
of
start
neglecting
ourselves
in
a
sense.
And
I
don't
believe
it's
like
a
purposeful
neglect,
it's
almost
like
an
unconscious
omission
in
a
sense
to
where
you've
just
kind
of
been
doing
so
much,
and
next
thing
you
know,
you
realize
it's
been
weeks,
months,
even
years,
and
it's
just
like,
huh,
I'm
kind
of
exhausted,
or
I'm
not
sleeping
well,
or
I'm
not
eating
good,
and
I
just
don't
feel
happy.
And
then
you
kind
of
think
about
things.
It's
like,
when's
the
last
time
I've
been
to
the
doctor?
When's
the
last
time
I
just
kind
of
like
had
a
night
to
myself?
Um,
so
it
just
kind
of
happens
over
time
and
until
you
actually
realize
it,
but
you
realize
it
because
you're
feeling
some
sort
of
way,
and
then
it's
like,
okay,
this
is
what's
going
on,
and
then
you
want
to
do
better,
but
then
you
look
around
and
you've
kind
of
created
this
life
that
heavily
depends
upon
you.
There's
really
not
even
like
a
structure
for
you
just
to
kind
of
have
that
space
for
yourself.
So
um,
yeah,
I
think
it's
just
something
that
we
just
haven't
really,
we
were
never
really
taught
in
terms
of,
you
know,
kind
of
growing
up
about
how
to
take
time
for
yourself,
how
to
still
kind
of
like
prioritize
what
you
need
in
the
midst
of
everything.
We
were,
you
know,
a
lot
of
us
were
taught
to
kind
of,
you
know,
caretake
and
you
know,
do
what
needs
to
be
done.

Self-Priority As Stewardship

SPEAKER_02
3:34

Exactly.
I
I
I
like
your
you
say
on
here,
your
message
is
self-priority
is
not
selfish,
it
is
stewardship.
What
do
you
what
does
that
what
does
that
mean?

SPEAKER_00
3:47

I
think
for
a
lot
of
people
who
are
caretakers
and
like
natural
nurturers,
um
we
do
for
everybody
else.
And
we
feel
good
about
what
we
do
for
everybody
else.
Like
we
take
pride
in,
you
know,
being
able
to
care
for
our
parents,
you
know,
our
partners,
our
pets,
our
kids,
whomever.
But
it's
like
the
minute
we
kind
of
turn
some
of
that
inward,
we
feel
selfish.
We,
you
know,
we
we
feel
guilty.
And
so
I
came
up
with
that
self-priority
isn't
um
selfishness,
it's
stewardship,
because
it
is.
It's
just
like,
yes,
you
may
have
a
responsibility
to,
you
know,
your
parents,
your
kids,
even
your
job,
but
it's
just
like
you
have
a
responsibility
to
you
too.
And
I
think
a
lot
of
time
we
forget
that.
Like
if
we
don't
care
for
ourselves,
who
will?
And
while,
you
know,
God
has
placed
many
different
assignments
in
our
lives
to
manage,
like
we
are
our
first
assignment
to
manage,
you
know?
Yeah,
we
forget
that.
So
it
just
kind
of
re-yeah,
we
definitely
forget
that.
So
it's
just
kind
of
reframing
it
and
that
like,
no,
like
prioritizing
your
needs
isn't
saying
that,
you
know,
everything
is
all
about
me,
but
it's
recognizing
that
your
needs
matter
as
well.
And
just
like
you
have
a
responsibility
to
everybody
else
and
everything
else,
you
also
have
a
responsibility
to
you.
Like
you
have
to
care
for
the
person
that's
doing
all
of
the
caring.
Like
you
can't
just
do
for
everyone
else
and
do
nothing
for
you.
That's
not,
I
don't
believe
that's
what
kind
of
God
intended,
even
when
he
gave
us
these
assignments
that
we
have
to
do
that
maybe
take
a
lot
out
of
us.
But
you
are
still
responsible
to
steward
your
health
and
your
life
and
your
well-being.

SPEAKER_02
5:43

And
I
know
for
me,
sometimes
I
like,
you
know,
write
these
lists
and
I'm
chucking
it
off
and
I
think,
oh,
I'll
just
go
do
this
really
quick
and
it'll
be
done.
And
then
like
my
stuff
ends
up
going
farther
and
farther
down
the
list.
And
it's
like,
no,
it's
okay
if
I
don't
do
this
today,
this
errand,
I
can
do
it
later
and
you
know,
spend
time
with
my
friends
or
something
this
afternoon
or
something,
you
know.
But
it's
really
hard
because
you
feel
guilty
prioritizing
over
you
know
what
you
need
over
somebody
else.
Like,
why
do
you
think
women
feel

Why Guilt Hits Women Hard

SPEAKER_02
6:14

that?
Not
that
men
don't.
I'm
sure
there
are
some
men
that
do,
but
I
think
women
tend
to
feel
guiltier
about
it.

SPEAKER_00
6:20

Yes,
yes.
I
I
definitely
feel
like
guilt
plays
a
lot
of
it.
Um,
I
feel
like
guilt
often
shows
up
when
we
feel
like
we
have
like
violated
or
like
broken
some
internal
like
standard
or
expectation
we
put
on
ourselves.
It's
like
we've
been
handed
like
a
lifetime
of
expectations
from
the
beginning
to,
you
know,
as
women
to
be
nurturing
and
to
be
available
and
to
be
accommodating
and
dependable
and
responsible.
And
we
set
up
these
um
expectations
in
our
mind
about
what
it
means
to
be
a
good
wife,
a
good
mother,
a
good
caretaker,
a
good
employee.
Um,
so
I
feel
like
when
we
do
something
that's
maybe
contrary
to
kind
of
what
in
our
mind
we
believe
it
to
be
um
good,
then
we
feel
guilty.
We
feel
bad,
like
we're
doing
something
wrong,
even
though
we're
not,
you
know,
if
that
makes
sense.
So
I
kind
of
feel
like
that's
where
that
guilt
comes
from.
It's
like
we
have
these
standards
and
we
have
these
expectations
that
you
know
we're
trying
to
live
up
to.
And
when
we
do
something
that's
a
little
bit
different
from
those
standards
or
expectations,
it
makes
us
feel
like
we're
doing
something
wrong.
And
that's
kind
of
where
that
guilt
creeps
in.

SPEAKER_02
7:45

I
yeah,
I
understand
that.
Yeah,
it
just
kind
of
does.
You
you
try
to
tell
yourself,
don't
feel
guilty,
but
there's
always
that
little
hint
sometimes
that
yeah,
and
I
dealt
with
that
um
a

Burnout Story And A Guilt Framework

SPEAKER_02
7:57

lot.

SPEAKER_00
7:57

So
I
am
also
um
a
caregiver.
I've
had
a
few
different
caregiving
um
since
in
my
life.
At
one
point
in
time,
I
was
a
caretaker
for
my
dad
after
his
kidney
transplant.
And
then
I
was
again
a
caretaker
for
him
after
his
cancer
diagnosis
until
he
passed
away.
And
then
a
few
years
ago,
I
had
a
family
member
in
an
accident
that
suffered
a
traumatic
brain
injury.
So
now
I've
also
been
a
full-time
caregiver
for
that
individual
for
going
on
um
three
years.
And
pending
kind
of
that
caregiver
situation,
I
went
through
like
a
horrible
season
of
burnout,
like
in
every
sense
of
the
word.
The
mental,
physical,
emotional
exhaustion,
um,
the
self-neglect,
the
not
going
to
the
doctor,
not
caring
for
myself,
the
um
feeling
miserable,
feeling
alone.
It
was
a
very,
you
know,
kind
of
dark
season
for
anybody
who's
kind
of
been
there
before.
And
um
part
of
that
was
because
I
was
so
focused
on
everybody
and
everything
and
all
the
new
responsibilities
I
had.
I
didn't
do
anything
for
myself
because
I
would
feel
bad
trying
to
do
something
for
myself
when
there's
so
much
that
needs
to
be
done
and
so
many
people
that
needed
me.
Um,
but
that
obviously
did
not
work
out
well.
So
it
was
like,
okay,
this
isn't
sustainable.
I'm
I
I'm
miserable
and
um
everybody
else
is
good,
but
I'm
not.
So
I
kind
of
had
to
figure
out
how
to
start
working
through
that
guilt.
And
I
did,
I
kind
of
learned,
you
know,
there's
sometimes
that
people
say,
Oh,
you
know,
take
care
of
yourself
and
do
it
with
no
guilt.
I
don't
think
no
guilt
exists.
No,
I
don't
think
so
either.
But
I
feel
like
if
you're
the
type
of
person
that
is
just
a
natural
nurturer
or
caregiver,
that
guilt
is
there,
you
know
what
I'm
saying,
by
default
when
you
try
to
do
something.
But
I
had
to
learn
how
to
not
allow
the
guilt
to
dictate
my
actions,
if
that
makes
sense.

SPEAKER_02
9:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00
9:58

Like
it's
going
to
pop
up,
but
at
one
point
in
time
it
would
pop
up,
and
then
I
would
let
the
guilt
take
over
and
like,
okay,
I'm
just
not
gonna
do
it
because
I
feel
bad.
Now
it
pops
up,
it's
there,
and
I'm
still
gonna
do
what
I
set
out
to
do.
So
for
myself,
I
kind
of
created
like
um
a
little
framework
that
I
needed
to
kind
of
help
me
move
through
it.
And
it's
like
four
parts.
So
the
first
part
of
it
for
myself
was
kind
of
like
just
being
honest
and
naming
the
guilt.
What
am
I
feeling
right
now?
I
feel
bad
for
saying
no.
I
feel
bad
for
saying
that
I
can't
take
you
today.
You
know,
I
feel
bad
for
going
out
when
you're
at
home,
you
know,
kind
of
things
of
that
sort.
And
then
from
there,
it
was
positioning
the
guilt.
Um,
and
position
it
in
the
sense
of
like,
um,
did
I
really
do
something
wrong?
Like
asking
myself
an
honest
question.
Did
I
do
something
wrong?
Did
I
harm
anybody?
Did
I
drop
the
ball?
Did
I
do
something
to
change
the
trajectory
of
my
life?
Like
saying
that
I'm
not
gonna
take
you
to
the
store
today
because
I'm
tired.
That's
that's
not
wrong,
you
know?
So
it
was
just
kind
of
positioning
it
to
did
I
do
really
do
something
wrong?
And
then
from
there,
it
was
like
identifying
um
kind
of
what
was
underneath
it.
Why
do
I
feel
bad?
Why
do
I
feel
bad
for
saying
that
I
can't
take
you
to
the
store
today?
And
I
thought
about
it,
and
this
because
I
want
to
be
seen
as
dependable.
I
want
who
I'm
caring
for
to
feel
like
they
can
depend
on
me.
And
I
feel
like
when
I
tell
them
I
can't
do
something,
now
I'm
kind
of
like
breaking
that
rule
of,
well,
they
can
fully
depend
on
me.
But
then
I
have
to
even
break
that
down
further.
Does
depending
on
me
mean
I
have
to
be
available
24
hours
a
day?
You
know,
kind
of.
That's
a
good
point.
Yeah.
Um,
and
so
now
it's
kind
of
like
identifying
with
that.
And
so
that
goes
back
to
that
expectation.
So
it's
like
I
set
up
this
expectation
in
my
mind
that
mean
that
being
dependable
means
I
have
to
constantly
be
available.
And
that's
not
sustainable.
No,
it's
not.
And
then
from
there,
the
last
point
was
just
um,
you
know,
speaking
truth
over
it,
not
just
like
a
false,
you
know,
positive
affirmations,
but
speaking
like
true
truth.
Like,
I
am
allowed
to
rest
if
I'm
tired.
Yeah.
You
know,
I'm
like
my
needs
are
valid
as
well.
Like,
there
is
nothing
that
you
need
from
Walmart
tonight
that
we
can't
get
tomorrow.
You
know
what
I'm
saying?
Like,
right.
Yeah,
let's
just
speak
truth.
I'm
allowed
to
rest.
I'm
allowed
to
say
no
sometimes.
So
it
was
a
process,
not
an
easy
process,
but
it
was
a
process
um
that
allowed
me
to
kind
of
work
through
the
guilt
to
where
the
guilt
didn't
keep
me
stuck
in
a
very
unsustainable,
you
know,
kind
of
mindset
and
situation.

Why High Achievers Burn Out

SPEAKER_02
13:07

And
why
do
you
think
that
like
cape
very
capable,
high
achieving
women
are
especially
vulnerable
to
the
burnout?

SPEAKER_00
13:16

Um
I
I
think
it's
baseline
personalities,
like
the
things
that
require
someone
to
be,
you
know,
quote
unquote,
kind
of
like
high
achieving
or
successful
and
however
they
define
it,
are
qualities
such
as
being
hardworking,
dependable,
resourceful,
solution
focused,
efficient,
independent.
You
know,
those
are
the
type
of
qualities
necessary
to
achieve,
you
know,
things
in
life.
Um,
but
those
qualities
don't
just
stop
at
your
career.
You
bring
those
same
traits
to
other
areas
of
your
life,
you
know,
your
marriage,
your
caretaking,
your
family,
your
ministry,
kind
of
things
of
that
sort.
And
when
you're
functioning
at
such
a
high
level
in
every
area
of
your
life,
it
becomes
a
lot,
you
know?
So
it's
like
regardless
whether
it's
at
work,
whether
it's
at
home,
whether
it's
in
your
ministry,
you
know,
if
there's
a
problem,
you're
trying
to
solve
it,
if
there's
something
that
needs
to
handle
it,
you
know,
you're
trying
to
handle
it.
And
those
are
the
qualities
that
make
you,
you
know,
successful
in
whatever
realm
you
feel,
you
know,
that
means
or
whatever.
But
it's
like
you
start
doing
that
in
overdrive,
now
you're
vulnerable
to
burnout
because
it's
just
like
you
can't
function
at
such
a
high
level
all
the
time
without
some
sort
of
maintenance.
No
system
is
going
to
work
if
it's
constantly
functioning
at
a
high
level
without
some
sort
of
maintenance.
And
that
maintenance
is,
you
know,
it's
the
rest,
it's
the
stepping
back,
it's
the
recovery,
you
know
what
I'm
saying?
Kind
of
things
of
that
sort.
So
it's
basically
like
the
same
traits
that
make
a
lot
of
people,
you
know,
high
achieving
and
successful
and
very
capable
when
those
traits
are,
you
know,
kind
of
in
like
overdrive,
then
that
predisposes
you,
in
my
opinion,
to
kind
of
like
burnout.

How Self-Neglect Hurts Health

SPEAKER_02
15:13

And
with
the
burnout,
how
can
what
happens
when
chronic
self-neglect
affects
a
woman's
physical,
mental,
and
emotional
health?

SPEAKER_00
15:22

Um
I
mean,
it's
it's
as
simple
as
like
you
can't
care
for
what
you
ignore.
You
know,
sure
you
simply
can't
care
for
what
you
ignore.
So,
you
know,
if
you're
burnout
and
you're
neglecting
yourself,
it's
going
to
affect
your
physical
health
because
it's
going
to
be
even
start
with
the
simple
things,
the
not
eating
well,
or
the
eating
on
the
run,
or
the
foods
that,
you
know,
don't
support
obviously
a
healthy
lifestyle.
You
know
what
I'm
saying?
The
not
moving,
the
poor
sleep.
The
missing
appointments
is
a
big
one.
When
I
was
going
through
my
burnout
journey,
it
was
like
I
was
taking
my
family
member
to
their
doctor's
appointments
like
four
or
five
days
a
week.
I
hadn't
gone
to
the
doctor
in
a
year
and
a
half.
I
hadn't
had
any
of
my
like
regular
like
maintenance
checkups
or
anything
like
that.
Um
and
then
from
a
mental,
you
know,
standpoint,
you
know,
when
you're
dealing
with
that
chronic
exhaustion
and
fatigue,
you
know,
you
have
the
difficulty
concentrating,
you
know,
the
mental
fog,
the
decision
fatigue,
you
know,
the
stress,
the
anxiety.
And
then
even
from
an
emotional
standpoint,
all
of
that
can
compound
sometimes
to
where
you
um
you
feel
resentful,
you
know,
you
feel
frustrated,
you
know,
you
just
kind
of
have
all
of
these
different
um
emotions
going
on.
So
yeah,
when
you
are
neglecting
yourself,
you're
you're
gonna
feel
it.
It's
gonna
affect
your
health
mentally,
physically,
emotionally,
and
you
know,
even
spiritually.
Like,
and
the
thing
about
it
is,
as
caretakers,
we
know
this.
And
the
reason
I
say
we
know
this
is
just
because
we
make
sure
that
the
person
we're
taking
care
of
has
those
needs
as
fulfilled
as
possible.
We're
gonna
make
sure
that
they're
eating
well.
Mom,
you
cannot
have
that.
It's
not
good
for
your
sugar.
We're
gonna
make
sure
that
they're
moving.
You
gotta
get
up,
you
gotta
do
a
little
stretching,
let's
go
for
a
walk.
We're
gonna
make
sure
that
they're
showered
if
they
let
you.
Hold
on.
That's
right.
Um,
we're
gonna
make
sure
to
take
their
medicine,
that
they
go
to
the
doctor.
You
know
what
I'm
saying?
If
they're
sad,
we're
going
to
try
to
find
ways
to
make
them
happy
or
to
make
them
laugh.
If
they
feel
lonely,
we're
gonna
try
to
find
ways
to,
you
know,
uh
help
them
not
feel
so
bored
or
do
something
and
that
brings
them
joy.
We
we
do
that
because
we
know
how
important
that
is
for
their
life.
But
like,
it's
also
important
for
our
life
too.

SPEAKER_02
17:59

It
is,
and
yeah,
we
end
up
going
to
the
bottom
of
the
list
with
it.
How
do
you

Finding The Real Root Cause

SPEAKER_02
18:05

think
women
can
get
to
the
root
of
what
they're
feeling
instead
of
only
managing
those
visible
symptoms?

SPEAKER_00
18:12

Um
getting
to
the
root
of
what
you're
feeling
requires
a
lot
of
um
honest
life
assessment
and
and
and
self-awareness.
And
that's
that
kind
of
digging
deeper
part
that
I
kind
of
said
before.
Like,
we
do
a
lot
of
things
as
caretakers
and
it's
not
just
for
them,
and
the
things
that
we
don't
do
for
ourselves.
And
it's
kind
of
getting
to
the
root
of
that
why.
Like
from
like
an
example,
me
getting
uh
me
trying
to
figure
out
kind
of
why
I
felt
bad
for
not,
you
know,
taking
someone
to
the
store.
It
was
that,
well,
I
want
to
be
seen
as
being
dependable,
and
then
okay,
now
being
dependable
to
me,
I'm
telling
myself
it
means
I
have
to
be
available
all
the
time.
It's
kind
of
getting
to
the
root
of
what's
what's
influencing
you
to
make
the
decisions
that
you've
been
making,
you
know?
And
what
is
really
what's
really
draining
you,
you
know,
because
sometimes
it's
it
could
see
like
the
surface
level
stuff,
but
it's
actually
something
that's
a
lot
deeper
than
that.
I
have
this,
you
know,
this
one
framework,
it's
like
a
life
drain
audit
that
lets
you
look
at
different
areas
of
your
life
in
terms
of
like
your
time,
your
energy,
your
attention,
your
responsibility
drain
to
kind
of
see
where
things
are
really
pulling
from
you,
and
then
from
there
what
you
can
do
with
it.
And
I
feel
like
there's
one
of
four
things
you
can
do
with
it
once
you
figure
out
like
what's
pulling
from
you.
You
can
see
if
you
can
release
it.
Is
it
something
you
can
let
go
of?
Can
you
reduce
it?
Maybe
not
um
pour
into
it
as
much,
maybe
reduce
the
frequency
or
something
like
that.
Can
you
receive
support
for
it?
Or
do
you
have
to
respond
to
it
differently?
Maybe
some
things
can't
be
perfect,
maybe
they
just
have
to
be
good
enough.
Maybe
the
whole
to-do
list
doesn't
get
done
today.
Maybe
you
do
the
one
or
two
things
that
are
pertinent
and
everything
else
waits,
you
know?
So
it's
trying
to
find
a
way
to
structure
your
life
in
a
sense
where
it's
not
as
straining
and
a
little
bit
more
supportive.
And
it's
hard
when
you're
a
caretaker
because
there's
a
lot
of
times
where
you
feel
like
my
life
is
not
my
own.
It
is
true.
It's
very
true.
It's
so
hard.

Life Is Short So Rebalance

SPEAKER_00
20:40

Yeah.
But,
you
know,
you
also
have
to
think
about
it
in
the
sense
to
where
this
is
the
only
life
you
get.
This
is
this
is
it,
you
know,
and
that
was
kind
of
what
I
think
kind
of
helped
me
get
from
or
helped
me
start
coming
out
of
my
own
seasonal
burnout
because
I
was
at
like
work
one
day
and
I
work
in
a
hospital.
And
you
know,
and
I
see
patients,
you
know,
in
their
20s,
30s,
40s,
and
50s,
you
know,
pass
away
from
different,
you
know,
things
or
whatever.
And
you
know,
I
had
someone
pass
away
there
was,
you
know,
in
similar
age
to
me.
And
it's
just
like
life
is
very
short
and
unpredictable.
Yes,
yes,
it
is.
And
I
am
miserable.
And
if
I
die
tomorrow,
I
will
be
mad.
I
don't
want
to
die
miserable.
Seriously.
Like
I
want
to
die
miserable,
you
know.
And
it
was
just
like,
this,
this,
this
can't,
this
cannot
continue
to
be
forever.
Like
I'm,
you
know,
I'm
saying
I
pride
myself
on
being
really
good,
you
know,
and
making
sure
that
everybody
else
is
good
and
happy
and
comfortable,
but
I
was
not
doing
it
for
myself.
And
it
was
just
like,
why
is
everyone
else's
comfort
and
well
being
so
much
more
important
than
mine?
And
that's
not
coming
from
a
selfish
place,
that's
just
coming
from
a
real
place.
And
it's
just
like,
I
understand
that,
like
I
said
before,
we
have
these
um
assignments,
and
I
don't
know
why
some
of
us
are
put
into
the
position
to
have
to
caregive
and
you
know
have
these
new
responsibilities
versus
other
people.
You
know,
I
am
obviously
um
a
religious
person,
so
I'm
just
like
it's
it's
God's
will,
it's
his
assignment
for
my
life.
And
I'm
okay
with
that.
But
I
don't
think
that
his
assignment
for
my
life
is
meant
to
completely
um
cause
me
to
sacrifice
myself.
I
don't
believe
that
to
be
true.
Um,
so
it
was
just
like,
okay,
yes,
this
is
the
only
life
I
get.
Like
every
day
that
passes,
I'm
not
getting
that
that
that
day
back.
I'm
getting
like
one
day
closer
to
being
older
and
older
and
older
and
not
here
myself.
So
it's
just
like
I
have
to
find,
I
have
to
find
that
balance,
you
know.
We
have
to
remember
that,
yeah,
yes,
that
the
people
that
we're
caring
for,
we
want
their
life
to
be
well
for
the
duration
that
they
are
here.
But
it's
just
like
we
also
have
to
make
sure
that
our
lives
are
relatively
well
for
the
duration
that
we're
here.
So
that's
really
true.
It's
just
just
kind
of
like
mindset
shift
and
things
of

Making Time When Life Is Chaos

SPEAKER_00
23:13

that
sort.

SPEAKER_02
23:13

Now,
how
how
can
women
make
time
for
themselves
when
life
is
already,
you
know,
really
busy
or
chaotic?
Like
people
might
say,
This
is
great,
but
I
I
I
don't
have
time
to
do
it.

SPEAKER_00
23:27

I
feel
like
women
are
great
at
making
time
for
what
they
believe
is
absolutely
necessary.
Like
my
son
was
a
football
player
and
he
injured
himself
and
needed
physical
therapy,
and
I
was
like,
oh
my
God,
I
do
not
have
time
to
take
this
board
of
physical
therapy
three
days
a
week
for
an
hour
a
day.
But
it
was
necessary.
So
I
didn't
have
a
choice.
So
it
was
like,
okay,
changing
some
work
schedule,
rearranging
some
things,
X,
Y,
and
Z.
I
found
the
time
to
make
it
happen
because
it
was
necessary.
And
I
think
we
have
to
do
that
for
ourselves
as
well.
Like,
yes,
we
say
I
don't
really
have
enough
time
because
life
is
busy
and
chaotic,
but
it
was
the
same
thing.
If
your
mom,
if
someone
said
that
you're
okay,
your
mom
has
to
go
to
therapy
three
days
a
week,
blah,
blah,
blah,
for
an
hour,
you're
gonna
find
the
time
to
take
her.
If
someone
else
needed
something
from
you,
you're
gonna
find
a
way
to
make
that
time.
So
I
think
we
just
have
to
put
some
of
that
same
energy
towards
ourselves.
Like
we
find
a
way
to
make
time,
and
it
doesn't
have
to
be
huge
chunks
of
time
because
you're
not
gonna
have
huge
chunks
of
time,
but
just
small
carved-out
moments
where
it's
you
know,
a
15-minute
walk
or
just
kind
of
eating
by
yourself
and
not
multitasking.
And,
you
know,
I
know
other
people
aren't
great
with
helping,
but
you
know,
if
you
can
get
other
people
to
assist,
and
sometimes
like
um
appointments,
you
know,
like
I
every
once
in
a
while,
I
was
I
didn't
have
a
lot
of
super
lot
of
help
or
whatever,
but
if
I
had
an
appointment,
I
could
get
someone
to
kind
of,
you
know,
kind
of
watch
things
for
a
minute.
I
would
sometimes
tell
people
I
have
an
appointment.
It
is
not
their
business
that
the
appointment
was
with
me,
you
know?
Right,
right.
But
it
was
an
appointment
nonetheless
or
whatever.
So
um,
like
I
said,
we
know
how
to
make
time
for
things
that
are
necessary.
I
think
we
just
have
to
kind
of
deem
time
for
ourselves
as
necessary
and
and
make
that
appointment
with
ourselves
and
and
put
it
on
a
calendar,
just
like
you
know,
we
would
put
a
doctor's
appointment
on
and
you
know,
just
kind
of
try
to
figure
it
out
from

Self-Care Versus Care Of Self

SPEAKER_00
25:40

there.

SPEAKER_02
25:40

And
I
think
a
lot
of
times
people
think,
oh,
self-care
is
like,
oh,
you
go
get
a
massage,
or
you
know,
you
you
go
to
the
spa
or
you
get
your
nails
done,
which
all
those
things
are
great
too,
if
that's
what
helps
you.
But
sometimes
it,
like
you
said,
making
an
appointment
with
yourself.
Sometimes
it
might
just
be,
you
know
what,
tonight
I'm
binge
watching
my
favorite
show
and
I'm
not
gonna
feel
guilty.
And
it
makes
you
feel
better
sometimes.
Whatever,
like
you
said,
or
go
for
a
walk,
or
you're
just
sitting
there
and
you
know
what?
I'm
gonna
play
my
game
right
now,
and
I'm
just
blocking
the
world
out.
If
you
know,
or
I'm
taking
a
nap.
Sometimes
that's
you
know,
sometimes
that's
what
you
need.
It
doesn't
have
to
be
this
big
extravagant
self-care
thing
that
people,
you
know,
sometimes
people
think
it
has
to
be.

SPEAKER_00
26:21

Yeah,
yeah.
I
would
100%
agree
that
it
doesn't
have
to
be
those
things.
And
I
don't
know,
I
feel
like,
like
you
said,
I
agree
those
things,
they
are
good
and
they're
necessary
and
they're
helpful.
But
I
that
I
don't
think
that
that's
enough
in
a
sense,
because
I've
had
those
times
before
to
where,
yeah,
I'm
stressed,
I'll
go
get
a
massage.
I
couldn't
enjoy
my
massage
because
I'm
thinking
about
everything
I
need
to
do
when
I
get
home.
You
know,
it's
just
like
you're
in
these
moments,
but
you
can't
even
like
enjoy
them
because
you're
so,
you
know,
full
of,
okay,
I
need
to
do
this,
I
need
to
do
that.
You
know,
I'm
still
just
as
tense
leaving
when
I
was
when
I
got
there
or
whatever.
Right.
And
so,
you
know,
why
there's,
I
think,
space
for
self-care
practices,
in
my
opinion.
I
think
the
biggest
thing
is
learning
to
um
learn
to
have
care
of
self.
And
for
me,
that's
a
little
bit
different
than
like
the
self-care
practices,
the
spas,
the
massage,
whatever.
That
care
of
self
is
kind
of
like
creating
a
rhythm
to
where
you
are
included
in
your
own
life,
to
where
there
really
is
space
for
you
to
just
do
the
simple
things,
to,
you
know,
take
a
long
enough
shower
without
trying
to
rush
and
get
out
or
just
sit
down
and
actually
eat
and
enjoy
your
food
without
multitasking
or
kind
of
figuring
out
the
next
appointment.
Like
to
me,
care
of
self
goes
a
lot
deeper
than
self-care
practices
because
like
those
self-craft
practices,
they
can
help
for
that
small
moment,
but
it's
like
the
minute
that
moment
is
over,
you
kind
of
back
to
all
the
same
heck
that
caused
you
to
need
that
moment
in
the
first
place,
you
know.
Right,
right.
So
it's
like
trying
to
create
a
rhythm
that,
you
know,
just
just
creates
a
little
bit
more
support
and
sustainability.

SPEAKER_02
28:22

I
would
agree
with
that
a
hundred
percent.
Like
I
like
sometimes,
like
for
me,
it's
okay,
this
night,
I'm
just
watching
whatever
TV
show
I
want
and
I'm
blocking
the
world
out.
And
I
find
sometimes
when
I'm
able
to
do
that,
then
the
next
day
I
feel
a
lot
better
because
like
I
just
did
that.
That's
you
know,
I
didn't
I
didn't,
I
I
I
felt
relaxed
at
that
point
and
I
took
a
little
time,
you
know,
just
for
me,
and
it
helped
with
it.
Yeah,
you
know,
something
simple
with
it.
What

The RISE Method For Recovery

SPEAKER_02
28:49

do
you
think
are
some
practical
steps
women
can
take
to
recover
from
burnout
or
prevent
it
or
before
they
get
to
that,
you
know,
breaking
point
where
they
start
crying
over
something
and
they
don't
even
know
why
they're
crying.

SPEAKER_00
29:00

Yeah.
Oh
my
gosh.
Yeah,
it's
um
yeah,
burnout
ain't
caregiving.
It's
it's
it's
it's
a
lot.
And
I
know
you
had
your
experience
with
caregiving,
and
it
is
definitely
um,
it's
definitely
a
lot.
Um,
in
terms
of
like
preventing
or
um
recovering
from
burnout,
again,
I
um
kind
of
went
through
my
own
journey
and
just
kind
of
self-reflected
back.
I
did
a
lot
of
journaling
when
I
was
in
my
season
of
burnout,
which
was
very
beneficial
because
as
I
was
able
to
come
out,
I
was
able
to
kind
of
look
back
and
see
the
things
that
I
was
dealing
with,
the
emotions
that
I
was
feeling
and
how
I
was
kind
of
making
it
kind
of
from
day
to
day.
Um,
but
I
did,
I
per
created
like
a
little
framework
called
um
Rise
or
whatever,
in
terms
of
like
burnout
prevention
and
um
recovery.
And
the
R
stands
for
recognize
what's
been
normalized.
So
what's
been
normalized
are
things
like
the
exhaustion,
the
tension,
the
overfunctioning,
the
constant
mental
load.
Like,
you
know,
when
you're
in
those
heavy
seasons,
that's
almost
that's
your
day-to-day
for
a
lot
of
people.
So
it's
just
kind
of
recognizing,
yeah,
the
exhaustion,
the
tension,
the
overfunction,
this
mental
load,
this
running
from
one
responsibility
to
the
next,
we've
kind
of
normalized
it
as
just
just
is
what
my
life
is
right
now.
But
just
because
we've
gotten
used
to
it
and
we're
surviving
that
day-to-day
doesn't
mean
it's
healthy
and
it
doesn't
mean
it's
sustainable.
So
it's
first
just
kind
of
recognizing
kind
of
what
you've
normalized,
and
then
the
I
is
the
identifying
the
um
internal
pressures,
and
that's
that
why
underneath
that
I
was
talking
about
before.
Like,
you
know,
why
am
I
functioning
the
way
I'm
functioning?
Why
do
I
feel
that
if
I
don't
handle
it,
it
won't
get
done?
You
know
what
I'm
saying?
Why
is
it
my
job
to
handle
this?
Why
do
when
I
set
a
boundary,
I
feel
selfish
and
I
feel
bad?
Like,
what
standards
am
I
trying
to
live
up
to?
You
know,
what
expectations
of
myself
do
I
have?
And
do
they
even
work
in
this
season
of
my
life?
And
where'd
it
come
from
in
the
first
place?
That's
that's
the
thing
about
it.
Because
a
lot
of
things
that
we're
living
up
to,
like,
um,
we
don't
even
know
where
they
came
from.
You
know,
like,
yes,
like
you
may
have
the
expectation,
like,
okay,
to
be,
you
know,
a
good
woman,
I
need
to
have
a
clean
house
and
I
need
to
cook
three
home
cooked
meals.
Like,
where
did
that
come
from?
You
know,
that
was
that
something
that,
you
know,
you
maybe
you
seen
growing
up,
or
you
know,
I'm
saying
women,
you
know,
you
know,
older
kind
of
taught
you
what
you've
seen
from
society.
And
does
that
even
fit
your
life
right
now?
It
may
not.
It
may
require,
you
know,
some
meals
that
you
order
in
and
a
housekeeper,
like,
you
know
what
I'm
saying?
So
we
can't,
you
know,
be
in
these
situations
and
live
by
these
standards
that
just
don't
fit
our
life
or
our
current
seasons.
So
it's
just
that
kind
of
identifying,
like
I
said,
these
pressures,
you
know
what
I'm
saying,
that
we're
that
we're
living
by.
And
um,
and
then
from
there,
the
S
is
the
self-priority
as
stewardship.
It's
that
mindset
shift
and
remembering
that
you
are
responsible
for
you
as
well,
that
you
cannot
continue
to
neglect
yourself
or
abandon
yourself
for
the
sake
of
your
responsibilities.
Just
like
you
have
a
responsibility
to
them,
you
have
a
responsibility
to
you
too.
Your
needs
matter,
your
health
and
well-being
matter
as
well.
And
then,
like
the
E
portion
of
that
is
just
to
establish
a
life
that
supports
you.
Because
I
mean,
you
can
be
aware
of
all
of
the
things
that
are
going
on
that
aren't
working
well,
but
if
you're
not
doing
anything
differently,
life
is
going
to
stay
the
same.
And
that's
kind
of
like
that
for
R
thing.
That
okay,
is
this
something
I
can
release?
Is
there
something
I
can
reduce?
Is
there
something
I
can
receive
support
for?
Or
is
there
something
that
I
just
need
to
respond
to
differently?
You
know,
sometimes
it's
how
we,
you
know,
respond
to
the
situation,
you
know,
maybe
you
know,
I
can't
take
this
as
personal,
or
maybe
I
just
need
to,
you
know,
shift
how
I
view
it,
kind
of
things
of
that
sort.
Because
I
mean,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
a
lot
of
your
responsibilities
aren't
going
anywhere.
They're
not.
Right.
They're
just
there,
you
know.
Um,
so
it's
just
trying
to
figure
out,
you
know,
I'm
saying,
can
I
carry
this
differently?
Like,
how
can
I
still
create,
you
know,
a
life
that
somewhat
supports
me
even
in
the
midst
of
all
of,
you
know,
the
responsibilities
and
everything
like
that
that
I
handle.

SPEAKER_02
33:53

That's
very
true.
That's
a
good
good
thing
to
think
about
for.
So

Where To Find Otanthea

SPEAKER_02
33:57

if
our
if
my
listeners
want
to
get
in
touch
with
you,
what's
the
best
way
for
them
to
get
in
get
in
touch
with
you?

SPEAKER_00
34:04

Um,
so
my
podcast
is
called
Making
Space
for
Me.
It's
on
all
major
podcast
um
platforms.
And
then
uh
my
Instagram
is
at
Otantia
O
T
A
N
T
H
I
A
W
B.
And
there
they
can
um
also
kind
of
follow
me,
send
messages,
and
then
there's
a
link
to
different
offers
and
uh
resources
that
I
provide.

SPEAKER_02
34:28

Okay.
Well,
now
make
sure
that
uh
we
will
put
the
link
on
there
too,
so
people
can
click
on
it
too
with
the
with
the
show
and
everything,
so
they
can
get
in
touch
with
you.
This
has
been
so
enlightening.
Things
that
I
needed
to
hear
as
well
today
for
it.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
today.
So
hopefully,
caregivers
will
realize
it's
okay
to
take
a
little
bit
of
time
because
it's
just
a
very
hard
journey
when
you're
a
caregiver.

SPEAKER_00
34:54

It
it
is
a
hard,
like
I
said,
it's
a
hard
journey.
I'm
still
obviously
um
living
it
now,
but
I
have
learned,
you
know,
with
a
little
time
to
create
a
little
bit
more
breathing
room,
you
know,
for
myself.
Because
um,
yeah,
if
you
don't
take
care
of
yourself,
it's
gonna
be
hard
to
take
care,
it's
gonna
be
hard
to
take
care
of
others.
And
the
same
way
you
said
the
night
that
you
will
watch
something
the
next
day
you
felt
a
little
bit
better,
you're
able
to
show
up.
You
know,
you're
able
to
show
up,
you
know,
as
a
better
version
of
yourself
when
you
have
those
times
to
where
you
can
actually
care
for
yourself.

SPEAKER_02
35:29

Yes.
Very
good
things
to
remember
for
that.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
today.
Uh
thank
you.
It's
been
very,
very
enlightening.
So
hopefully
you've
enjoyed
this.
You've
got
some
good
tips
as
a
caregiver
to
know
it's
okay
to
take
time
for
yourself
for
it.
So
hopefully
you
enjoyed
your
cup
of
coffee,
your
cup
of
tea,
or
if
you're
having
that
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine,
and
you
took
a
took
a
little
time
for
yourself
right
now.
And
please
join
us
for
another
edition
of
Patty's
Place.