Category: Podcasts

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02

0:08

Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we will talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. I'm your host, Lisa. I dedicate this podcast to my mom. It's in honor of her. She passed away about two years ago from dementia for that. So hopefully you will grab your cup of tea, your cup of coffee if you're having a really bad day, glass of wine, and we will get started. So today I'm very excited. Our guest is Marie Alesi. She's a best-selling author, TED Talk, and uh keynote speaker. And you're also the mother of two boys, which is very important as well, too, for that. And you like to have shiny examples of choosing love over fear and sadness. Am I good with that?

SPEAKER_00

0:49

Absolutely. Thank you.

Sudden Loss And A Shocking Week

SPEAKER_02

0:51

So um you could tell why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Uh uh your husband passed away suddenly. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00

0:58

Yeah, absolutely. Uh that was in 2018. Rob went on a business trip and never made it home. He passed away from a brain aneurysm when the boys were 10 and 8. So that was quite a shock to our systems.

SPEAKER_02

1:12

Yes, that that's always it's always hard with that. So, how how did you find empowerment in grief?

Meltdown To Empowerment In Grief

SPEAKER_00

1:21

Oh. Wow, it's such a loaded question, and it was quite a loaded moment for me as well, because that was the least I expected to find in grief, to be honest. And I want to share a little story that preceded that so the audience understands how that came about, because obviously that answer is quite surprising. And I remember the week where we had Rob's funeral, and it was a midweek funeral on a Wednesday, and it was unexpectedly an unbelievably beautiful day, and as you can imagine, also a very intense day. But my entire focus was on giving Rob the most beautiful celebration of his life that he could have expected, you know. So there were about 500 people in a room, 300 of us went um on and and you know, celebrated together. And it really was my utmost emphasis to celebrate his life, make that about his beautiful personality, his, you know, he he was so bright. Like people just when he entered the room, people just loved him. And I wanted to reflect that in his celebration. So, in the same week, on the Sunday, I had to walk down the aisle with my younger son for his first Holy Communion. And I would have never expected that that was harder than the actual funeral because Rob was supposed to be there, and we live in a small country town, so all eyes were an us, and I really struggled to keep my tears back. I was so trying to stay brave, and I think they wanted to protect us by putting us on the very last row in church, so not everybody would stare at us, but what nobody understood was they gave us the longest walk through the entire church, and it it was torture for me. Every step of the way was really hard because I wanted to be happy for Jid. I wanted to celebrate his stay, I wanted to celebrate him, and yet there was so much heaviness in our hearts that day because you know Rob's absence was so present, it was so apparent. So, fast forward later that day when finally everything was done and dusted. And I'm talking, you know, it was the biggest week of our lives with the funeral and the holy communion and all these different layers of emotions. And that night I had a complete meltdown. Um, I started, you know, calling up to the boys, they were bickering, or brushing their teeth, and then all of a sudden, this sentence left my uh body, I want to say, and it was boys, I just need peace and quiet. I remember how I sort of yelled it up to them because I was so on edge. And I realized that was the moment because I've been holding everything together, that was the moment when I just collapsed. And by me saying that sentence out loud, it was like a valve had opened that couldn't be closed anymore. And I started yelling that sentence over and over, and I could see how my body, I just needed peace and quiet, and it got louder and louder until I literally it turned into primal screaming, and I found myself on the kitchen floor, whacking the kitchen cupboards and screaming and screaming and screaming. And I remember that being an out-of-body experience. It was like I could see myself on the kitchen floor. I had no idea how I even got to the floor, and I watched myself screaming and whacking the cupboard doors, and and all of a sudden I remember the boys upstairs, and it just snapped me back into my body. And I'm like, I need to get my together because I need to be present for the boys. They've just lost their dad, they can't lose me as well because I'm I'm losing it, you know. And that led me to seeking the help of a positive psychologist. I sat and on the bed with the boys that night. We had a really raw and deep conversation about emotions and how to process them and how unhealthy that felt for me, and how scared it made me and them, and what to do about it. So I went to the positive psychologist. I went to a couple of sessions with her, and we got to the point where she said, Um, you know, what was going on in my life. And I told her how heavy those expectations are from other people, from onlookers that are expecting me to fall apart. They were waiting for that moment. They were like, you know, she's too happy, she's too positive, she's to this, she's, you know, celebrating her husband's life, and she's so happy where she should be crying. And there are so many opinions of people who have got no idea what we actually went through. And I said, that weighs really heavy on me. And she said to me that moment, she said, So, what does grief mean to you, Marie? And that's where that word came up. I said, empowerment, and that really surprised me, but it also brought me back, and this is why I took you through this whole moment, to that falling apart moment. There was such primal power in that moment that I felt. And I got to the point where I realized I can let that power destroy me, or I can use it and tap into it to build myself up and to stand strong and hold that space for the boys and be the parent that they need me to be. And yeah, that's that's where I found empowerment in grief.

SPEAKER_02

6:34

And I I love that story because I think it's really true. People are always like, oh, well, it's grief, you should be crying. No, you you can feel anything in grief with it.

SPEAKER_00

6:44

And everything.

Celebration Of Life Over Cookie Cutter

SPEAKER_02

6:45

Yeah, and um it made me think when you were talking about your husband's celebration of life. My mom was always so funny, you know. For years before she was ever sick, she used to tell me, you know, that when she died, she I was supposed to uh she was gonna leave a list of invit invitation only to her wake. And I was like, Well, mom, what am I supposed to do if somebody shows up that isn't on the list? And she's like, Well, I'll be dead. That's your problem. I was like, Thanks, mom, you know. I love it. And then she was always like, and then and before she decided she was gonna be cremated, she would be like, and don't you dare have that casket open. I don't want anyone looking at me either. Don't you dare do that to me, you know. So later on, she decided she wanted to be cremated because she was like, Don't be spending all that money. And she's like, do whatever you want with the ashes, you know, or that. So when it came down to it, um my mom actually passed 10 days before her birthday. And so we ended up having her her service on her birthday. And so we ended up making it a celebration. It's beautiful, though. Yeah, a celebration of her life because she used to say to me, you know, you don't have to have it anywhere, you know, maybe have it nice, invite whoever you want, tell stories about me. I don't care. Except she left her list of music she wanted played. And I really, yeah, that was important. Um, but we had a cake for her and everything, and and we I we brought things that were her because that's what I wanted it to be. And and people said to me it was it was her, you know, and and I think that's what's so important because you know you go to a lot of different wakes or funerals, and sometimes you feel like they're almost cookie cutter. You know, you say these prayers and that, and I think it's important that you celebrate their life, you know, who they were, tell the story.

SPEAKER_00

8:36

The cookie cutter, if you don't mind me saying this quickly, because I feel to me, you just found the perfect way to describe the difference between a funeral and a celebration of life. And the funerals are very cookie-cutter, usually, you know, that's why I don't like to call them funerals. Yes. It sometimes helps because we have that, you know, common vocabulary that people know instantly. But when I say celebration of life, that's really what we did. And it seems like that's exactly what you did for your mom. I love it.

SPEAKER_02

9:03

Yeah, and so I told, you know, family and friends, I'm like, come on up and say whatever stories. And um it was her great nieces and nephews that came up because she used to she would babysit them as they were, you know, they were now they're in their early 20s and stuff, and they were telling they were telling stories, and and the one he was like, Can I tell this story? I go, You can tell any story you want about her. And so they did, you know, and they laughed and and everything, and people were laughing because I was like, Yep, that was her, you know.

Helping Families Create Lightness

SPEAKER_00

9:30

Um that's exactly where it should be. I love it.

SPEAKER_02

9:33

And I I wanted to talk about the celebration of life because on your website, you actually help families with that. How do you do that?

SPEAKER_00

9:40

Yeah. Oh my God, how do I do it? It is because I love focusing on their happy stories, on the joy, on the love that they brought into a family. So when I come and meet with families, most of them, if they don't know much about me or what I do, uh, they sort of expect that, you know, what prayer and what this and what that. And I always come in and say, tell me the beautiful things about your person, you know. I want to get to know them. I want to know about what made you laugh, what what was the joy, what was the love about? Have you got happy moments, happy memories? And what are those memories that you would like to share? And they always look at me and say, Oh, okay. Uh, and and then you see that shift happening in them, and it's so beautiful because all of a sudden there's this lightness that comes in. And my whole tagline of my business is bringing lightness into grief. That's what I'm about in a nutshell. It's everything I do in my business is all about bringing more lightness in and educating people on the language. I think that's a big thing as well. So there is an expectation, as you said, funeral, cookie cutter, which prayer, what song, what when speeches. And I always say, what can we do with the speeches? What can I bring with our speech, with my speech that I hold for the family? That brings something unique and something beautiful into this celebration because I'm here to celebrate your person. If they want cookie cutter approach, I'm not the right person for that. I don't do the standard and heavy and sad, I do celebration and joy and love and happiness, and that's a huge difference. It makes such a difference, and people talk about that for years to come.

The Happiness Filter After Loss

SPEAKER_02

11:22

Yeah, I do. I I I've always felt I was glad that we did that with my mom that way. And and it was basically what she had said, you know, and she kind of left it up there, but that's you know, who she was and stuff. But you got to hear those different stories because I think when you do the celebration of life, especially if they've been sick, or even if it's sudden, you're not talking about that illness, you're talking about the person and what they meant to you for all of that. And I think that that's what's really, really important. So, how did you find some happiness amongst all your grief? That I mean, that's hard to find, you know.

SPEAKER_00

11:58

No, I don't think it is. No? Okay. I honestly don't think it is. So I want to step back again to paint that picture. I'm gonna make this story super quick. Less than three years prior to Rob's passing, Rob and I had the what-if conversation, and it was such an intense moment because Rob called me on the way back from work and he said, Hey babe, I'm gonna be two hours late. There was an accident on Heathcote Road. Heathcote Road is like a one, like 25-kilometer road or something through the national park. And when there's an accident, it's a huge detour. There's nowhere where you can go. You have to literally go back and doing that in peak hour traffic, it adds about two hours plus to your journey. So instead of his usual half an hour I'm home, he came home like two and a half hours late or something. And we learned that at this accident it was a front-on collision with a firefighter off duty, he was coming home and a truck, and he died on the scene. It was really tragic for us to learn about that because his daughter was only 16 months old, you know. So for a lot of people, it was such an inconvenience. Oh, my husband's coming late for work, and the boys are waiting to see dad and you know, dinner and bathtime and all that stuff. But for one family, it meant that the dad never came home again, you know, and it hit us so deeply. I remember that conversation because our boys were so little, and I remember sitting on our bed that night, and Rob and I were crying and and talking and laughing, and we had all sorts of emotions that night. And we talk about the what would you do if you were to receive that phone call, you know? And the outcome of that one and a half, two hour conversation was I would want you to create the happiest life possible for you and the boys, because that's what love is. You know, when you love someone, you want them to be happy and not suck in grief. I don't expect anyone to not grieve. It was not my aim to not grieve Rob. I certainly did. But when I received that unexpected phone call that I always thought would never happen to us, that was the first thing that popped in my mind. And I heard it in Rob's voice create the happiest life possible for you and the boys. I could hear it in my mind as I'm sharing those unimaginable truths with my boys. You know, it was such an intense moment, and that came up and it became my lighthouse in my darkest hour. That was my, I have no idea how, but this is what I'm going to do. I'm taking you to happiness. I want to create happy memories, happy moments. And every decision I had to make, tiny or huge, was based on is that going to bring us happiness? It became my absolute and only filter in life. And once you decide, it actually becomes easier and easier and easier because I never thought of anything in my entire agreement and never thought about anything of this is hard. I just thought about what I wanted to do. Because if I got sidetracked, then this is hard. It would have taken me down. I never allowed that. People always say that to me, that would have been hard, or so parenting would have been hard. And I was like, it puzzles me because I'm like, oh, I never thought about that. Because I didn't have time to think about whether it's hard or not. I just did it, you know. That's what I had to do. I was so focused on creating a beautiful life for them that I didn't think of anything else.

SPEAKER_02

15:24

I can relate to that in the sense that people say to me, Well, they had to be hard with your mom. She didn't know who she, you know, didn't she didn't know who I was. And and and dementia is and stuff, but to your point, it wasn't something I thought about. It was just she's my mom and and she would have taken care of me. So I'm gonna yeah, it's like uh yeah, it was, but I I didn't have time to dwell on it because I needed to make you know, make sure she was safe and it's almost like they're missing the point, you know?

SPEAKER_00

15:55

Yeah, because there's so much love there, and that's that's your focus. You're not like, oh, this is hard or not.

Coping Tools For A Family Of Three

SPEAKER_02

16:01

Yeah, it's love. Yeah, and and I'm always always like, Well, if the roles were reversed, my mom, my mom did do that for many people, so it was like I you know, I had to do that. But how did you, as a family of three, how did you cope in the early days? Because it had to be hard. Your boys were young. As I just said, it had to be hard.

SPEAKER_00

16:21

No, no, no, it's fine. Um, how do we cope? It I think I'm gonna start with what helped me the most in that whole situation was uh the positive psychologist was really, really important. So I saw her for about four and a half months, maybe after Mob died. And in that conversation about empowerment and grief, I also said to her, I think I need to write a book about this. And she said, Yeah, I think you should. And I went home and did that. So I think the writing really helped me because it was very cathartic. I wanted to write down the story for when the boys are older that they could read it. I wanted to write it down while it was fresh. I wanted to write it down because I thought people might get a different idea how to handle grief rather than the cookie cutter that brings a lot of heaviness and sadness. Um, and what I didn't expect was that the book ranked in the top 100 bestseller list of Amazon Australia. So I knew there and then I had something the world needed. I had happiness and healing where you needed the most but expected the least. As for my boys, all I learned in that because I had no idea how to do this. I've never been a sole parent before, I've never lost a husband before. It was all completely new to me. All I had was love. And all I had was that focus on I want a happy life for them. And Flynn and Jed were both so, so different in their grief. It was never the same. Sometimes they swapped over, but one wanted to talk about it all the time, the other one never wanted to talk about it. One cried about it every night, the other one never wanted to cry, and really tried his best to keep it all together. So I think that was the hardest part for me, speaking about Heart, that they were so different in their approach. And I never knew should I mention Rob, should I not? But I just didn't want to think that through. I just trusted my gut instinct. I just talked about him when it felt right, and I never forced it. I have to, you know, mention dad every single day. I never try to hold back as in don't trigger them because I think there's no worse trigger than making anybody who's close to us or especially his kids feel that that is forgotten or it's not talked about anymore. And yes, it might trigger, and yes, there might be tears, but it can also trigger joy and happy memories. And I I wanted all of that. I thought there is no hiding emotions, you know, they all need to come out. I I just wanted to create a space for our emotions to come out. And then the biggest part for us on the journey, I think that was the most important part for all three of us on our healing journey, and we still talk about it today. I took them traveling around the world. Oh I just took off. I needed to get away from older onlookers, from older expectations. Um, I took them out of school early. The big summer break was coming, and I'm like, we're going, we're just going. And I sat with the boys and I said, Tell me anywhere in the world, is there anything you want to do, anything you want to see, anywhere in the world, it doesn't matter. And my older son, I should laugh about this. It's such a funny memory, actually. Uh, he said, I want to eat snails in in Paris. And I'm like, hmm, okay. So okay. It became one of the grossest and most bonding moments we ever had. Sharing a third of one escal between the three of us, and it was such a mind of a matter thing. Oh my god, I'll never forget this. Uh very French waiter in this little cafe near the Eiffel Tower, and we ordered uh six escal and sent five and two-thirds of them back. But yeah, it was it was incredible. I think traveling really gave us freedom and likeness and space and lots of new happy memories, and it was so needed for all of us to give our soul a break and not be in that circle of you know, where we could feel Rob's presence. Um I should say, sorry, his absence, obviously, you know, where he should have been present. We felt his absence so intensely when we were in the house. So that it was really quite important for us to get out, open, open our hearts, our minds to the entire world and allow some healing to happen. That was beautiful.

Hidden Gifts In Adversity

SPEAKER_02

20:39

Uh I would agree with that. I I had the opportunity to go to Ireland that my mom passed in January, and um actually my dad came with me. It was a group uh at at work. We it was a tour, and we were there for 10 days. Well, that was always my dream trip was to go to Ireland and and that, and it really did. Like those 10 days were just I I would go back in a heartbeat. Like it really did. I mean, I still felt my mom there and stuff, but it was just you're in that different environment, you know, you're she traveled first class with you, yeah. You know, like and you you see different things. Yeah, I felt it, yeah. My soul felt like so refreshed, and it was such a wonderful experience with that because you know, I I think sometimes people with with children they don't know what to do. And and I just me personally, I think that just to talk with them and say, if you want to talk about that person, talk about them. If you're not up, you know, like they're having the same feelings as adults, only they may not know how to process it or what to say. Yeah, you know, and to be able to have that safe space for them, I think helps uh so much when it comes to their processing their grief with it for that. So you talk about that there's hidden gifts in adversity. What are those hidden gifts?

SPEAKER_00

21:56

Yes. Oh I think it's one of the most underrated and overlooked things in the grief journey that there are always like every adversity comes with hidden gifts. It just depends on whether we open ourselves up to seeing them and even further receiving them, you know. And I I need to take you back to my dad's passing to answer that question because my dad died when I was 20. And back then I had no tools, no idea how to handle it, how to process the grief. I felt I was completely alone in this world with grief. And of course, my brain knew I wasn't the only one who lost a parent, but my heart felt so alone in this journey because none of it happened to none of my friends. So nobody knew how to deal with it, how to handle it. And it took me a good year to get out of my funk. I was in such a hole in with all of that, not knowing where to go. It was really like one of those pull the rug under my feet and who am I now? You know, it was I was 20, so you're officially an adult, but you still really need your parents around. And I was so close to my dad. And when I met Rob, my husband, I thought one of the most amazing hidden gifts in the adversity of losing my dad was that it taught me to be fully and wholeheartedly present as often and as much as I can. We're all humans. I don't do this 24-7 all the time, but certainly a lot more than I ever did before. It gave me such a focus on being present with the people I love, with the people around me, which resulted in me always telling my friends and strangers when I when I loved something about them. I I still to the day, I tell strangers on the street, it's like, oh, I really love your shoes. Or, you know, I'm I'm walking the Seacliffe Bridge, which is such an iconic bridge, like uh 50 minutes south from here, and I love going for walks there. And I remember seeing a couple and they were so in tune, they were so in love. And and I just walk past like that, you know, it's just like giving them a bit of a love heart, and it's just those little moments, those tiny connections, those um being with Rob, like every single day I would tell him how much I loved him, and it wasn't based on fear that one day I might lose him because I never thought that that would happen. Despite having lost my dad, I never thought that would happen. But it gave me this being present and telling people how much I love them all the time. And again, not from a space of fear, but from a space of love and wanting to be present and wanting that connection. And that was a gift I learned from my dad's passing. Don't miss a moment, be present because life is so freaking precious. And what other and really brutal way is there to learn it than when you lose somebody so close to you? So that's just one of them. But there is just multiple, you know. Even sometimes when I when I thought of the journey, you know, like I would have not been in a financial position to travel around the world with the boys, yet I had a really unbelievable friend that came out of nowhere that I hadn't had close contact for many years, and who just transferred the all the money plus more and said, I want you to have this experience. Uh, that friend always wanted to stay anonymous, and I absolutely honored that, but it was unbelievable. And to receive the how much I had changed in that person's life that I was never aware of, she said, You've got no idea what you did for me. I want to, this is all I can do right now. I know it's not going to bring him back, but I want you to have this experience, and it was such a gift, it was such a huge gift to be able to travel. I would have not been able to do that without Rob's passing, which is really tragic, you know. I it doesn't bring it into perspective, but do you know what I mean? There's all these things that come out. People come out of the woodworks that you never thought that would be like really close friends and other close friends that you thought would be there for you all all of a sudden disappear. So it really changes the dynamic, it changes your network, it changes your inner circle. And in that you can also discover a lot of hidden gifts, you know.

Services And Grief Literacy For Schools

SPEAKER_02

26:17

That's very true. Like, yeah, yeah. I sometimes I am surprised by who was really there, who wasn't, or you know, who just said things that were like, wow, that really helped me, or yeah, it's just kind of amazing what what it brings out with that uh with that. But I want to make sure we talk about your website. It's Marie Alessie.com, correct? Yes. Yes, correct. So what um you have a lot of different services and things like that. So what can people, if they go to your website, what can they what services in that do they have?

SPEAKER_00

26:53

So I think the bigger categories is I do ceremonies. I love doing celebrations of life. That's something that is really, really close to my heart and it's just so beautiful. We talked about that before. Uh, then of course I offer one-on-one coaching. I used to run group classes, I don't do them at the moment, but um, sneak peek, they might be coming back in a different format, but it's too early to share publicly yet. Just a sneak peek. But yeah, so I offer grief coaching, I offer family bereavement sessions, which I think is just so beautiful, especially when kids are younger and don't know how to really truly express that yet. There is actually um in the family uh bereavement sessions, um, we draw images of four different stages where I take the family through, and it sort of brings them on a similar level rather than the parents talk and the kids don't have words for it. So it brings them together, it brings them into a shared experience, how you can process this. And I I did one myself after um Rob passed away, and it was one of the most emotional and really beautiful things that the boys and I did together, and they said the same thing, it was hugely emotional, but they were so glad we did it. And then I offer uh family consolation, which is really beautiful in terms of looking at the structure and the family dynamic, what changes when that person passes, and it's just incredible because you are actually led into the outside perspective about your own situation, about your own family, seeing yourself in the picture as well, which is incredible. Um, and then I offer speaking and workshops as well. I've just brought out a grief literacy workshop for the schools, which I find so important because most schools are not equipped to handle grief in a classroom, which is shocking to me because in Australia, our statistics are that one in 20 children loses um a uh a parent before the age of 18.

SPEAKER_01

28:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_00

28:50

And that is only losing a parent to death when you bring in divorce or uh other situations, or losing a grandparent or a sibling, that's not even included in the statistics. Oh, yeah. And that statistic alone is 5% of our children who lose a parent to death before the age of 18. And then when you add all the other deaths or losses or grief into that mix, the statistics just go up and up. And it is not taught when you become a teacher, it is not taught in the curriculum of teaching teachers to teach our children. And I'm like, how can this not be part of their training? They need to have so I put the brief literacy workshop together for uh teachers and school staff to give them wording, to give them language, to give them tools, how to hold space and how to integrate that in a classroom, because the biggest thing is that this child feels completely excluded from the rest. There's this, you know, loneliness that they feel, and most people are not aware of it. They call it resilient, but truly they feel lonely, not resilient, you know.

SPEAKER_02

29:56

It definitely, yeah, there is that loneliness. Even when you are trying, you know, going through everything and and and feeling your feelings and and processing it, there is always that that loneliness because that person's just not there and they're never going to be there physically again. So there is to be able and sometimes just to acknowledge that, yeah, I do feel lonely. I really miss that person today, you know.

SPEAKER_00

30:20

Yeah, especially in and also because you're the only one in the classroom, you know. All the others go home to mom and dad, and you go home to mom. You know, that there's that loneliness as well. That you feel you're the only one, you're not included in a group anymore now. You're now different. That is the loneliness that is so hard for a child to deal with. Oh plus you know what you just said.

SPEAKER_02

30:42

Oh, definitely. Like even, you know, something as simple as Mother's Day or Father's Day, you know, those are the different holidays. Uh and it and depending on how old the child is, they may not be able to process. They don't understand what they're feeling. So to have somebody like talk it through them and let them know that it's okay can help them immensely with that. And you do this in person or do you do virtual as well?

SPEAKER_00

31:09

Uh obviously the celebrations of life I do in person, but uh everything I offer can be done virtually or in person. I do a lot of Zoom on on Zoom these days. So uh all of my one-on-one clients I see on uh Zoom and uh the the workshops, the grief literacy workshop can also be done on Zoom. I much prefer teaching it in the classroom, like with the teachers, because it's just so different the connection that you have when you're in a room with those people. But it never stops me from saying yes if people want it further away, then I can travel in that moment. So yeah, it can be delivered either way.

SPEAKER_02

31:46

And you also uh your books are available too on your website as well, because you have several books. Yes, for that.

SPEAKER_00

31:53

I have. I authored four books and I co-authored another four. So my books are the the first one that I already shared about, Loving Love After Loss. It was our story, you know, how I met Rob, our love story, how he died, and how I dealt with it. Then the second book was a bit of a sequence to that. It uh shared what happened after that when the book ranked in the top 100 best sellers of Amazon Australia, and how I created a movement out of that, in which I took about 5,000 people on their healing journey, which was incredible. And it also has my seven steps from grief to relief in it, which are the steps that I took after Rob died. Then I've got a prompted journal, which is Sparks of Joy. It's got like a one-liner, just two, three lines basically every single day to spark joy, and then it's got enough space to journal. And excuse me, the latest book that came out uh last year in October is a book that I surprisingly co-authored with my sons. So I was almost uh in the final stages of my book, and it was supposed to have four parts one to the griever, one to the support person, uh, one with references and one with helplines. And as I was in the finishing stages, I got this download. The boys need to be in this book. And I'm like, oh, interesting. Okay. So I addressed the boys and I said, Hey, how would you feel to co-author a chapter in this book? And both of them I asked them separately because I didn't want to, you know. Um, and both of them gave me a resounding yes. So I created a sort of QA style, how they felt uh what happened after dad passed away, and how they felt supported, you know, by their teachers, by their peers, by uh school staff, in the community, in their immediate family, an extended family with with friends outside of school. Uh so I went through all of that, and both of them gave me rather different answers, you know, and that was so much that came out, and I just I just um integrated that into the book between the griever and the support person, and it was unfiltered. I did it, it sparked a lot of conversations because there was so much coming up that I was absolutely not prepared for. That I was wow, it was really emotional, and we had a lot of discussions about it. And I said, I'm happy to publish it as is. I just want you to understand once the book is out, this person could potentially read it, that person could potentially read it. You know, I wanted to them to be aware of the impact that could have uh on extended family or the teacher that, you know, was not as supportive as he could have been, you know, so like things like that. And my younger son that was the one I had this discussion with, was like, Yep, I'm fine with that. Okay, publish.

Breathwork Connection And Closing

SPEAKER_02

34:47

Oh yeah. Well, that yeah, that that's good that he was okay with that. So what what do you think? What do you think your husband would say about all the work that you've done after this?

SPEAKER_00

34:58

Oh, he'd be so freaking proud of me. I know that I can feel him around so often, and I hear that a lot from him. You know, I I have a way of um tapping into my husband at any given stage that I want now. I've done a lot of breath work in my healing journey, and in those breath work moments, I had a lot of moments where I really like just got into this next level of consciousness basically. It's it's been credible. And I spent a lot of time sitting with Rob, connecting with him, and I feel I can just tap into him at any stage now. And I so often hear, I'm so freaking proud of you, babe. You know, I can see his big smile. And um, yeah, I had a lot of uh psychics that I never seek out. I don't go to psychics for readings or anything, but sometimes they just come into my podcast, and sometimes I know before, sometimes I'm not aware of it, and I constantly get that, you know. And I'm always like, Yeah, it's very generic. Of course he's proud of me, but yeah, I don't want to question any of them, but but I get I get it all the time. That's the one thing that keeps recurring. Your husband must be so proud of you, or I can see he's so proud of you. And I'm I'm actually sure he would be because that's what he wanted me to do, right? I completely honored that wish.

SPEAKER_02

36:11

This has been so enlightening. Thank you so much for joining us today. And I will make sure your your website is on there. So I hope people come to your website and look at your books and everything. And I love your accent. Someday I'm gonna get to Australia. That's on my list.

SPEAKER_00

36:28

I love it. Thank you so much for having me, Lisa. I really, really appreciate you holding space for my story. Thank you.

Subscribe And Final Takeaway

SPEAKER_02

36:33

Well, I it was very interesting. So I hope our readers, our readers, our listeners will enjoy it. So uh just to tell everybody, make sure you subscribe to the YouTube channel. It's at Patty's Place-116. They can subscribe to that. And hopefully you don't feel so alone anymore and you find some light through the grief, as we were talking about today. So hopefully you had it enjoyed your cup of tea, your cup of coffee, or if you had a really bad day, your glass of wine, and join us for another edition of Patty's Place.

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02

0:10

Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we will talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. I named the podcast Patty in honor of my mom who died from dementia about two years ago. So uh I'd like to have this community so people know that they're not alone and they can go through these things and there's resources available. So grab your cup of tea, your cup of coffee, or if it's you've had a really bad day, a glass of wine, and we will get talking today. So today our guest is Jane Dye. She is an RN, a certified holistic health coach. Uh you're also a mastery level uh transformational coach as well in intuitive intelligence, a methods coach, and many other things. She also has a website as well. So, Jane, welcome to Patty's Place.

SPEAKER_01

0:56

Thank you, Lisa. I'm so glad to be here. I think it's important, especially for your listeners to know I'm also a certified grief educator. Um that came after doing all this transition. I started my professional life as working in adult inpatient psychiatry and then transitioned to outpatient work as a director of nursing and medical training for a national health care company. And then I became that independent health coach practitioner that you mentioned. Um, but it was because I experienced the loss of many family and friends from early adulthood on. But it wasn't until experiencing the death of my middle son, Christopher, three years ago, um, that I saw how little people understood and really responded well to grief. And so, as you know, we live in a grief illiterate world where we avoid talking about and taking care of people experiencing loss. So that's why I chose to expand my practice to become a certified grief educator. Uh I'm able to provide the highest level of grief support through education and experience and insights into what I'm sure you know is the often unacknowledged rocky terrain of grief. Um I am thrilled that I completed a certificate program designed by world-renowned grief expert David Kessler, um, where I bring his unique methodology, tools, um, and decades of experience to help people navigate the challenges of grief. So this has allowed me to turn my passion into purpose, helping those in grief find meaning after loss, and certainly as Christopher's legacy, just like Patty's places to your mom. And I love that.

SPEAKER_02

2:39

Yeah, well, my mom was uh not only was she a caregiver, she was also somebody who loved to entertain and everything. So she would, you know, people just came to her. So I was like, it's like she's you're coming into her house again.

SPEAKER_01

2:50

That's I just love that. That's wonderful.

Grief Literacy And Why Support Matters

SPEAKER_02

2:52

Uh so you explain a little bit how you got where you are today in that. So, what do you think is the importance of having guidance and support for life challenges, especially through grief?

SPEAKER_01

3:02

Well, that's I believe because grief can be traumatic and transformative. Um, loss changes everything about you and your life, your daily routine, your perspective, your future, along with your connections, right? To yourself, to others, and to the world. And our worst moments can be seeds for some of our best, um, as they do have an amazing power to transform us. So when we challenge the situation that is hopeless, usually with support and guidance, um we are challenged to change ourselves. And when we do that, we can turn the tragedy into an occasion for growth. That being said, um the growth will never seem worth it in many ways. Um, but it certainly can help you carry on um with meaning. Um I know for sure there is no need also to compare our losses when we recognize that in every case, your loss is the worst loss for you.

SPEAKER_02

4:05

Definitely. And I do think that sometimes we fall into that, we compare or or people compare us and they say, Oh, well, you should be over it, or I got I did this or that. And and sometimes you're just not ready. It it may be as simple as cleaning out somebody's clothes, you know. For some people, they have to do it right away, and other people, you know, it takes them a while, and they got through a box today, and they should be able to celebrate that that's what they did.

Grief Versus Mourning No Timeline

SPEAKER_01

4:32

Right. So I think it's important to note, and you may have discussed this with your listening audience already, but grief is what's going on inside, and mourning is what we do on the outside. Okay. So the internal work of grief is a process, many people call it a journey, and it doesn't have prescribed dimensions. It doesn't end on a certain date, as you mentioned. So when people are mourning, we can't judge their grief based on whether they're crying or they're angry or they're upset the most. I mean, some can never see your grief or judge your grief by what emotions you show or you don't show. So only you, as the griever, only know your grief. But the connection and attachment we feel for each other to those we love, to our friends, family, our coworkers, even to the home we live in, the job we engage in, it'll be reflected by the pain we feel later when we no longer have our loved one, the relationship or our home or the job. So we grieve for who and what we love, and even for who and what we hate, but we don't grieve for those we are indifferent to. So grief essentially is the evidence of your love and caring. Um that certainly is is is proved um in the tears that you shed.

Showing Up Without Assumptions

SPEAKER_02

5:53

Oh, definitely. When you said um, you know, everybody shows it differently, it made me think of um the day of my mom's service, well, a couple days before my mom's service, uh, my dad never once asked me how I was getting to the service. He just hit now his his brother came into town and you know, his brother was like, Oh no, you're not driving yourself, you know, you know, telling my dad that. But neither one of them ever asked me how I was getting there. You know, um, my mom's friends, you know, her really her best friends and stuff and her sister, they were like, How are you getting there? And then and they're like, No, you're not going by yourself, and they went with me. And just a few months ago, my dad was like, Well, you seemed okay. I knew you weren't, but you seemed okay. And I wanted to be like, Well, that's not even the point. Like, you could have asked me, like, how I was, you know.

SPEAKER_01

6:45

But Yeah, you brought up a great point. I mean, I think the thing in any relationship, but particularly in grief, is not not to assume anything. Um, and that a simple invitation um makes a huge difference in kind of seeing where people are at. Um, I don't think it's necessarily helpful to say, like, oh, you know, how are you? Right. Uh sometimes that's just a hello. But if you do say to somebody like, how are you doing today in your grief? Or, you know, is there anything um uh that I should know today that would be helpful to you? Um there are lots of ways to communicate that even when people are awkward and and you know, you look like you're fine, but you know, for all you know, it you're just barely hanging on.

SPEAKER_02

7:38

Exactly. I always would I sometimes I still say it, I'm like, just because I'm dressed doesn't and shower doesn't mean I'm okay. You know, like today I was able to do it, you know.

SPEAKER_01

7:48

With it and I think it's really important to note. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

SPEAKER_02

7:52

Oh, no, no, you're fine.

What To Say And Avoid

SPEAKER_01

7:53

Go ahead. Um, that we know that there's no timeline in grief and there's not a cure for grief because people in grief are not broken and we don't need to fix them. Uh there's like no no right or wrong way to grieve. However, we can explore patterns and interventions that help us through the dark days. And something that I learned from David Kessler that I feel is important to share with you and your audience, is that our grief will not get smaller over time. We need to get bigger. Um, and I think that happens through connections. You need to feel to heal. And you know, so many times in grief, um we don't have the normal or natural infrastructure surrounding us in the way um people did in generations before. You know, people live very far away from each other, uh, they may not have um really supportive relationships, but grief is a side effect of having connections, attachments, and relationships, right? So we often think we want to escape grief, but it seems what we really want to escape is the pain of loss. Yeah. And sometimes that that makes it hard for people to relate, you know. Uh it sounds like that might have been what you experience.

SPEAKER_02

9:20

Yeah, I mean, I I also know my dad. So, you know, I wasn't I on one hand, I wasn't surprised, but on the other hand, I was like, hello, you know, but yeah, I would agree it is, it's that pain of loss. And I always think like, uh, I don't know if it was my mom or my grandma or or somebody said, like, you know, when it first happens, it it's just huge, you know, you feel like this huge, huge like hole in in your heart or your in your body. But as time goes on, it's not that time makes it better, but you kind of feel like the hole gets a little bit smaller. Like you said, it's because you have other um support systems or different things that come in. So you it's not as raw, but because grief has no timeline, there could be something, and all of a sudden it could be years later, months later, and you have like a grief burst because you hear a song or you see something and you're like right there on that day, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01

10:16

Oh, it absolutely is. And I think that's that is so key for people to give themselves permission to know that that's going to happen, and that when it's happens, it's it's just your attachment to love and the missing, what whatever activates you to have that burst, as you said. Um, it's okay. And I think you know, we're here to let other people know it's okay. Yeah. Because there is so much judgment um internally and externally around grief and how people grieve and how long, I mean, I'm sure you've probably heard, aren't you over it yet? Exactly. Yeah. But David Gasler says, and I share, um, took this from him as well. Is well, how long is my person going to be dead?

SPEAKER_02

11:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

11:11

Because that's how long I'm going to grieve. Yeah. Like you say, like, you know, I'll get on, I'll, you know, get myself up in the morning, get going, have this great opportunity to speak with you on a podcast. But that doesn't mean that I don't think about those that I lost, and in particular my son every day, that I don't miss him, that I don't wish that the circumstances were different. What I don't, what I do know is that my story and my experience, that how it transformed me, is that I am a more compassionate person. I am somebody who can hold more space. I mean, I think a lot of people are surprised that like the best thing you can do for somebody who's had a loss is to witness their grief. Yes. Yes, definitely. Be there for them. Sometimes, you know, they worry about what to say or not to say. And we could certainly go into that because there are some things that are more helpful than not. True, yeah. But I think your willingness to sit in the discomfort and not try to make people feel better about something that's really hard to feel better about. I mean, I think one of the things when I work with clients that's really important is that they understand that they get to stay in what we like to call the first generation's feelings. Like if you're profoundly sad, you get to be sad. You don't have to hop over to grief and cheering up and like, but yeah, this person died. But you know, we had this many years together, whatever. You don't need to go there. Exactly. You don't need to go there unless it so interrupts your life that you are not able to respond to any of the things that normally would constitute a life. You can't do your activities of daily living. You don't talk to anybody. Uh, people have different motivations. For me, um, I, because I have been in the health and wellness field my entire life, uh, one of the motivators for me really came from research from Hope Edelman, who works with motherless daughters.

SPEAKER_02

13:30

Yes, I that's an excellent book, yes.

SPEAKER_01

13:32

Yeah, tremendous book. And one of the things I liked that she said is um, you know, that children often lose their parents when they lose a sibling. So it was great motivation for me with two other children and a husband, married many, many years now, that it was motivating and it was inspirational for me to know that I wanted to still show up for them as much as the mother I had always been, um, even when their brother was alive. And that I wouldn't lose myself, you know, um, and and that was a benchmark for me to be able to say, you know, how can I show up? And at the same time, let them have their own grief experience. I'm the kind, I go to resources, I go to books, I go to all kinds of learning, which not to compare, because that usually leads to the despair that people feel, but to just see, you know, what else are people feeling? What else are people experiencing? Where are they, where do they need help? I worked with a woman recently that it took her six years for her to even look at a picture of her deceased son. And um, and then she she she didn't even connect the dots that I don't know if this was your experience, it was for me and for a lot of my clients, that grief will bring up old wounds. Yes. And um, in her case, it really did, it brought up a painful childhood. And it's she never like connected how she was never modeled grief, how she, you know, even when she had small losses, that they were really not attended to. They're basically, you know, just brushed aside and we're supposed to move on and get on with life. And um, I think that's changed today. I think people are more open and receptive to it, but I think that that that kind of ideology still hangs around and in people. Yeah. So it was and and then she also learned that by sharing her story that she could help others who are struggling, you know, to to to like find meaning after loss.

SPEAKER_02

15:55

Yeah, I mean, like for for me, seeing pictures of my mom s brings me comfort, but I know sometimes for some people it doesn't. And something is like a something as simple or as silly as my mom loved the peeps, you know, the marshmallow peeps. And she did, she loved them her whole life. We, you know. Do you have a favorite color? Uh no, well, her favorite color was green, but she ate all of them, you know. I always brought them. As a matter of fact, that was the last thing she ate was a peep. Um so when they so she died in January. So when they started to come out, you know, for Easter, I I like could not, I had to like go a different aisle in any of the stores. Like I just wanted to start crying when I saw the peeps. But now when I see them in the store, I smile and I buy them because I find comfort and I feel like that's because my mom and I used and I would buy them for her all the time, you know. You know, so sometimes I understand where people are like, I can't look at this picture right now. And I'm like, well, that's okay, you will at times, you know, another time it'll you'll find comfort with it. But getting back to what we were talking you were talking about earlier too, like I know a lot of people they get so nervous, they're like, Well, I don't know what to say. I just want to talk about something happy. And you know, people would ask me, Well, how are you? And I'd be like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

17:11

Like, I have no idea how I am, you know, like you know, I mean, I think, yeah, and I that's something which actually uh did propel me a lot into doing this um professionally, is because especially around my my son's death, people really did know what to say. And um, you know, a lot of people like, oh, it's the worst loss and all this. And like just saying something as simple as, I am so sorry for your loss, I wish I had the right words, just know I care. I don't know how you feel, but I'm here to help in any way I can. You know, you'll be in my thoughts and prayers, whatever is really resonates with you. Sometimes just again, that that invitation is like, may I just give you a hug? Would a hug help you? And you get a yes or a no when you do exactly what that person needs in that moment. Um, but you know, the things we never want to hear, uh, at least she lived a long life. Yes, she's not suffering anymore yet. Exactly. And there is some relief for somebody who has suffered for a long time. And sometimes the people who left behind after that loss may feel guilt or shame for feeling any relief. Um, but it doesn't help for somebody to kind of hand that kind of platitude to you, you know, the whole he or she's in a better place, the reason for everything, you know.

SPEAKER_02

18:42

Um yeah, because you want to be like, I I get that, I understand that, but they're still not here. You know, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

18:49

Yeah. I heard one woman say to me that I work with, she said, if one more person tells me, you're so strong, yes, you know, because I think I'm gonna punch them. Yeah. Because I this is the no-choice option. I don't get to decide. I mean, just because I'm you don't see me crumpled, you know, covered in my bed with my my my blanket over my head doesn't mean I don't feel that way sometimes.

SPEAKER_02

19:16

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

19:17

But I think people really project onto you because they they're really struggling, they have the best intentions to support you, but because we don't talk about grief, uh you know, and the fact is if you don't live a long life, it's about the only way you're not going to experience loss or grief. If you live long enough, it will be a part of it. And what I have found, and I'm curious, um, because you are obviously connecting with so many people, I mean, I have met some of the most amazing people because of my grief experience.

Connection Hospice And Not Feeling Alone

SPEAKER_02

19:52

Yes. Yeah. And in I had some a couple of friends because my mom went into hospice, and you know, I I can't say enough about hospice services. They are just wonderful. And it's not just not just the services for the patient, but for the caregivers and the family. And you know, I I did individual grief counseling, plus they have a lot of events and group counseling. And I've had some friends, and I and I tell them, I'm like, I'm telling you, I advise you to do this because I go, when you walk in a room and you realize that you're not alone, that even though you know it's a different person that someone's grieving, it's a different circumstance, they truly understand how you're feeling, and you just don't feel so alone. You feel that connection that wow. And I remember the one time they do um, they call it Lights of Love, the hospice that's here, and it's at Christmas time, and it's just this beautiful ceremony. And I was so overwhelmed by like here's this room full of people, and everyone in this room experienced loss, and it's so overwhelming, and yet it was comforting because I didn't feel so alone knowing I was missing my mom. All these people were missing others, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

21:09

Yeah, and it can be, it can really be an amazing shift just in your perspective and how you approach people. Um, you know, there's so much good news about how those kinds of experiences and and and healing comes through connection.

SPEAKER_02

21:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

21:30

That's really the key to that's why support, you know, whether it's in a group like that or whether you seek a professional. I mean, there's so many platforms at this time if if you want to. That's one of the things that I feel really compelled to do with people who I interact with is make sure, make sure they have resources that they could choose. For me, as I mentioned earlier, reading was a huge resource for me, but it wasn't for my husband. Yeah. So it it's interesting. Grieve differently, and it was very helpful for me to learn those things and share them with people who wanted that kind of approach as well. And then, you know, when you are in a grief counselor or grief educator, the the student and the teacher are one. The griever really directs where we go in the conversation and what they're ready to share and to experience. And you know, there are wonderful um exercises and things that we do, but it's all based on what they're prepared to do, where they want to put their focus, you know, not it's not like signing up, you know, to the gym and you know, getting getting um, you know, a plan in place. That's not what it's about. But to your point, having people who understand your loss and who can show up with the right amount of compassion and understanding, can witness your grief and can just be there for you to help you get through your days. And there are some really great things that that people can do with support that they maybe wouldn't choose to do on their own, you know.

SPEAKER_02

23:21

And as you were saying about different things that people say, I'm reminded, like the night before my mom died, a really good friend of mine called me. And I always remember he was just like, There are no words for me to say how you're feeling, but you know, I like basically I'm here. You know, he's like, I don't completely know what you're feeling, even though he had, you know, he's lost his dad. But he he for him, it was like his dad died of cancer, my mom was dying of dementia. So like it's different things, but yet, you know, that meant so much to me because it was just like, yeah, there are no words, but yet by you saying that I felt comforted, you know, instead of all those other cliches.

SPEAKER_01

24:00

He's connected with you through his warmth and his care and his understanding how difficult it was. That's what I try to share with people as well. You don't have to have the perfect words. I mean, it's better to avoid some of those things we mentioned earlier that don't help. But putting that aside, any demonstration of care and concern, I mean, I have a friend who still till today, just out of the blue, will send me a heart emoji. You know, I will often, for people, whether they're personal or professional relationships, I'll just often send a text message and just say, you know, that I am thinking about that, that I'm here, no need to reply. Just want you to know that I'm here. And I've gotten a lot of positive feedback, like you said, from your friend. It's like they're not gonna fix anything because you're not broken. Right. They can't say anything that's really gonna take your pain away, but they can be in communion with you around your discomfort, your ache, all those things, the pain that you feel, and even things that you want to celebrate. Because sometimes people feel really awkward about after someone dies, smiling, laughing, yeah. Anything that seems remotely like, you know, you're not paying homage to, you know, the person who died. And and that's particularly true with children. Children are often the forgotten grievers, especially when they're really young.

SPEAKER_02

25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

25:35

But they need honest support as well. Um, I did listen to one of your your stories where uh a woman was talking about how she didn't learn until late in life that her father did not die from heart disease, he died from from um taking his own life. Yes. And and how disruptive that is when you're not being honest. Um, it does help to get languaging around that so that it's age appropriate. Yeah. But uh eventually you're going to find out. And that honesty around it, like I don't, I don't know what your pain is. Like your friend said to you, oh my God, it's so genuine, it's so comforting. You know, and you and you get that. That that comes through. So it's it's who is it? Was it Maya Andrew who said, you know, people won't remember what you say, but they'll remember how you made you feel? Uh yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And I and and that's a per your example is a perfect example of that.

SPEAKER_02

26:38

It it yeah, you know, and um it's so simple, but yet it's so hard for so many people, you know, to just be like, sometimes I'll tell people, oh, you know, some people like to read, I like to read too, but then sometimes I'll be like, hey, there's this great movie or there's this show. Like if that's where you find comfort in, you know, like I, you know, I'll say, for me, this is this movie I really just I connect it with, you know, or things like that. And it helps, you know, for some people.

SPEAKER_01

27:07

So I think what's interesting is, you know, the the research shows, or at least you know, I don't it's it could just be anecdotal, that when people are really grieving and sad, they don't necessarily want to watch a movie that cheers them up. Yes, they want to watch a movie that helps them just appreciate that experience. And and for a lot of people, it's a safe place to cry and to let those feelings come forward. But to your point, it's really so individual. I mean, and and you could feel one moment you want to do that, and the next moment you'd want to do something completely different, and that's all okay. It's all okay.

SPEAKER_02

27:47

Or I was just talking to a friend of mine, and we were both saying that sometimes you find comfort in watching these old shows. Maybe it's friends' reruns because you know what the lines are gonna be and they make you laugh, and that's what you need. And that's okay if you're spending your time watching, you know, these reruns, if that's where you find comfort, you know, that's what you need, you know, or maybe it's somebody's favorite show, your loved one's favorite show. That exactly. Yeah, you know, like my mom loved murder she wrote. So sometimes I'm over there and I'm like, I'm and I know all of the I've seen them all, you know, like I'm like, oh, I'm still watching it, you know.

SPEAKER_01

28:21

It just comforting to you, and that's yeah, and and and it's it's connecting, it connects you to her and the things that she loved, and it makes you feel close and I think that people need to know that it's okay to do that if that makes if you find comfort in that, that that's okay.

SPEAKER_02

28:40

Um I do want to make-shit.

Comfort Rituals Movies Memories And Kids

SPEAKER_01

28:41

It's just when we get to the point where we're judging uh our own behavior and other people's behavior, where it becomes more difficult to to um to see how we can live with the grief. Um when you just stay curious and you know, you find resources like this and where people can have a conversation about it and really let you know that all of that is within the the experience that people have of the things that help and and what doesn't help.

SPEAKER_02

29:14

I do want to talk about your website. It's Jane KD and it's dy.com, correct? Yes. And I did notice because you do have a background um in nutrition and stuff, um, with it, you know, I find that some people like they resort to comfort food during grief. And that some people can't eat at all. What would you say, like, how's that correlation with nutrition, like being holistic to help? Because people think, oh, like you said, you're grieving, you're crying, but your whole body's going through it.

SPEAKER_01

29:46

Absolutely. In fact, um, one of the good best resources that talks about that is um Mary Frances O'Connor, who's done the grieving brain and the grieving body, actually, yeah, talks about that that biological response to grief. Yes. What I suggest to people is, you know, you have to stay hydrated, um, even if it's just little bits here and there. I mean, comfort food is fine, but um, you know, it just depends whether or not you your digestion feels well. I mean, I think even more than focusing on, you know, what we eat or don't eat, it's to be able to move your emotions through the body. So whether that's taking a walk or if you're somebody who likes, you know, to stretch or do um yoga or meditation, we do need to move the bot the body, can help mobilize the emotions. Um, I happen to be a real fan of um Paul Denniston, um, who does griefyoga.com. I just finished one of his programs, but there were times where even in my certification um education, that I did Paul's yoga. And I thought, like, yeah, I'm like, you know, doing fine here. And then I did the exercise, and I had such an emotional download that was so healing. Uh, very much like what you talked about with your friend, but it's like I wasn't really expressing those emotions and until I expressed them through an embodied experience like yoga or walking, right? I couldn't mobilize them the same way. Um, I think that in in all things when we talk about health and wellness and we want to talk about diet and lifestyle, it's really about eating nutrient-dense foods that you like, you know, being able to enjoy the eating process when you feel up to eating, not forcing yourself if you don't want to, but just staying hydrated. If somebody's really having tremendous difficulty like eating it all, you might want to do some broths, some soups, things like that, you know, that feel nourishing. But hey, if you know that chocolate chip cookie like makes you remember mom in a way. I mean, I was working with a woman who she had just lost her aunt, and you know, she Christmas was coming up, and she's like, Yeah, I just you know, we used to spend the holiday together. So, well, what was something special that you shared? And she goes, Oh, her French toast. I said, Would it be comforting for you to make and eat uh French toast that you would have had with her? She said, You know what? I just think it might. So, I mean, nobody's gonna call French toast a health.

SPEAKER_00

32:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

32:54

But it is the it's the pleasurable experience of of enjoying what you know you just enjoy as a solo person, but or what you might have shared. And I think that that's that's that's a good guidance in the in the beginning, especially as you said early, early on, grief is a very different experience to when we get to the second and the third year. You know, you can call it um more mature grief. Um, you know, I think that um does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_02

33:28

Yes, yeah, because I know people are like it is something they did you eat, and sometimes you're like, uh sometimes you forget, or sometimes you're like, I don't know, or you're like, like, yeah, but I you know, and it is important. And I have to tell myself that too. Like, do do whatever it is that you like to do to move because it does help. Right.

SPEAKER_01

33:45

And what what any what any person would still advise is, you know, if you're going to pick something that's uh pick pick fruits, vegetables, things that are not processed only, you know. I would advise anybody that, you know, even if you know, chip and dip was your thing with your with your loved one, maybe to make that the only thing you eat, you know. Um, and then you listen to your body, right? Certain things are gonna feel okay and certain things aren't, but be gentle with yourself.

SPEAKER_02

34:13

And also you also you offer services on the website. People can go on there for different counseling and things like that on your website.

Grief And The Body Food Hydration Movement

SPEAKER_01

34:20

Yeah, the first thing I offer for everyone is a free initial consultation. Okay. I want you to get to know me, I want to get to know you, and we can decide together what is your next best move. And if you want one-to-one counseling, we can certainly do that. But I will supply people with resources and other things that might, you know, if if if one-to-one isn't what they want to do, I will supply them with a lot of resources so they can take their time. Uh, it's not something to be rushed. Um, people have to feel they're ready. Um, and when they are, I'm I'm I'm I'm thrilled to say that people have great experiences with support, uh, guidance, and accountability. And the accountability is only just showing up. That's all. You know, you don't have to jump through any hoops or do anything.

SPEAKER_02

35:12

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been very, very informative. And again, your web I'll have you I'll have your website link on with the show. So it's Jane K Dye Dye's D Y E.com. So people can uh check all of that out as well for it.

SPEAKER_01

35:30

So I'll leave me with this last thought. A friend of mine who's also nervous says, Do you realize that as a grief educator your name is Jane Dye? And I said yes, but it it's not spelled that way.

SPEAKER_02

35:44

So I don't know if you ever watched the show Touch by an Angel years ago.

SPEAKER_01

35:48

It was that I did in the past, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

35:50

And and the actor that played the angel, quote unquote, of death, his last name was Die too. That's spelled exactly the same. Yes, yes. Yeah, so and so it's this is a full circle type of a thing. So that's okay. Yeah, so I appreciate your sense of humor around it. Yeah, so but thank you so much for joining us today. So hopefully everyone has learned uh so if you enjoyed your cup of tea, your cup of coffee, or your glass of wine if it was a really bad day, type of a thing, and you will join us and you found some comfort and join us for another edition of Patti's Place.