Money Mindset For Grief And Caregiving-Interview with Paula Harris

Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_02
0:09

Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we'll talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. I named this podcast in honor of my mom, Pat, who died from dementia about two and a half years ago. So I want this to be a place where you can come together and learn and just know that you're not alone as you go through all of this. So grab your cup of tea, your cup of coffee. If you're having that really bad day or crazy day, grab your glass of wine and we will get talking. So today we are talking with Paula Harris. She is the co-founder of WH Cornerstone Investment. And she's also uh she also considers herself part financial planner and part dream architect. And she has helps assist women in life planning. And she's the author of Rise Up, a Widow's Journal, and Rise

Rewrite The Money Stories You Inherited

SPEAKER_02
0:50

Up a Grief Journal. Welcome, Paula. Thank you so much, Lisa. I'm thrilled to be here. Yes. And so we have lots to talk about. So let's start with how do we improve our money mindset?

SPEAKER_00
1:03

Okay. Well, there's so many factors that go into it. And I think a lot of times our money mindset is often shaped by our parents and the the roles we saw them play. So I think part of it is you have to start to I say be aware of what you observed because we often parrot. Like you'll often hear yourself say the exact same things that a mother or father said. And you have to figure out do they serve you? You know, one of the examples is like, you know, dad's driving around in a, you know, a regular old car and he sees somebody in, you know, a fancier car, let's say a BMW or Porsche, says, Oh, only uppity people drive those cars. And you suddenly say to yourself, Oh, I don't want to be an uppity person. So you might say, okay, I'm not going to earn enough money so that I can buy one of those cars. So we have to look at the scripts that were sort of implanted in us when we were younger and figure out also like why we do what we do. So are we um doing things out of revenge? You know, I had a client used to say, like, my mother was so controlling of everything I did that one day I called and said, like, I'm having two nut a butt nutty buddies for um for dinner, which are these ice cream cones. Like she wasn't having a proper dinner, she was just like, I'm spitefully doing that because my mother would have made me do something else. Um, or you know, you saw your parents penny pinch, so you go in the opposite way and you just frivolously spend because you don't want to be like them. So I think it's becoming aware of it, and then you have to think about okay, what serves me and what are my goals? So if your goals are to build wealth, you know, to have your own home, to have a healthy retirement, that you know, that you don't have to work until you drop, you know, that means you have to plan ahead and you have to say, okay, I'm not going to succumb to every um instant gratification. I'm not going to look at every billboard, every message on my social media and say, I have to buy that. You say, nope, I want to have something that's going to be better in the future than right now. So there's a lot of things that you have to start paying attention to and noticing. And then sometimes you need more help, you know, um, you know, around fixing that or setting it, depending on what you want, and figuring out what your core values

Preparedness Begins Before A Crisis

SPEAKER_00
3:20

are.

unknown
3:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02
3:21

That's that's all that's all good advice that we all can use. So as we're thinking about that and thinking about the future and we're trying to improve our money mindset, at what age do you think we should we should do the gift of preparedness for our loved ones to ensure that things are taken care of?

SPEAKER_00
3:38

Yeah. So I think, you know, let's start like super young. You're a parent of someone going off to college, a teenager, someone who just turned 18. They need to have a healthcare proxy that says, okay, um, if something happens to that child, guess what, parent? You're no longer was responsible. They're not considered their guardian. So you don't get any access, and they are an adult and on their own. So having them make sure that they have a power of attorney and a healthcare proxy so that you can still act in their behalf. So it starts then, and then you have to make sure you have those documents. So I'd say, you know, as you start to get into your 20s and you're sort of you're independent, maybe you're getting married, you're starting to buy real estate, you need to start to have, you know, documents in place that say, what happens to me as a human being if I can't make decisions on my own? What happens to my stuff? Um, and you know, you can do a lot of things by naming beneficiaries, which is really important. So, like you've started, you know, at work and you have a workplace retirement plan, you make sure you name your beneficiaries. But guess what? You know, a few years go by, you know, maybe you named your brother or sister, but then you got married. Okay, that you don't want to have your brother or sister still named, or your parents, you want your spouse named. And so you have to sort of check these things as life goes on. And as you sort of get you um old even older, you know, you get to the point like where you probably were with your mom, when she gets to the point she can't make decisions on her her own, you want to have these conversations before something happens, before a cognitive decline, before an accident. You know, we've we've been helping a client, um, you know, they're they're different ages by about 15 years. Uh he's late 80s, she's early 70s, and getting their estate plan in place, they didn't have one. And then we decide are gonna start getting some uh consolidating their assets in one place, and then he ends up in the hospital like a week after we we set all a lot of things in motion, the estate plan's done, he's in the hospital, and now he's gonna have to have a procedure next week that's pretty serious. So you there there's you know, always a good time is now to get prepared.

SPEAKER_02
5:53

And I as I've said before, I was lucky in the sense that because there was a family um uh something that happened in our family where it made my parents be like, oh, wait a minute, we don't have these things in place. And so they went and did the powers of attorney for healthcare, finance, and everything. And that's actually how we got my mom diagnosed because she refused to go to the doctor. Um that's how we were able to do that. So you would say the important documents we should always have on hand would be like your health care power of attorney, your financial and your financial proxy, and

Trusts Wills And Beneficiary Fixes

SPEAKER_02
6:30

like make sure your benefits are um beneficiaries are updated, like from 4013.

SPEAKER_00
6:36

Yeah, next thing is to make sure you have a trust or a will. Okay. Um, so trusts like we I'm based in Massachusetts, very important to have a trust if you have, especially if you have property, because there's no way to name beneficiaries on property like your home. So it it would go to probate, and probate um, you know, during COVID was taking over a year. It's still taking probably six months to a year, depending on which court system you go through. And you don't want to be tied up and not be able to make decisions around um a property, especially if someone needs uh that money or you know, there's something else going on you need to get out. So you want to make sure that you have that proper based on what state you live in, most of the time it's gonna be a trust because uh a will is a letter to the probate court that makes everything public. So that's the other thing. People who really value privacy don't want to see their name in the back of the well, they'll be deceased, but you see the name in the back of the newspaper that says, anyone who has a claim to the estate of Jane Doe, come forward. And I can tell you in my own family, my father had a distant cousin, um, and she she was an only child. Her parents died, she never married nor had children. So when she died, there are people called forensic genealogists that look for these exact type of people, and they put kind of they go out to find other family members. And in her case, they were, I think, 12 other family members, cousins that were still alive, and they get a piece of what they get for you. So they take a chunk of money. Well, this can be, you know, unfound money could be great for you, but you know, it may not be great for the estate. And it can through one of my aunts from the level where she was getting um services from the state, through just above that line where her services would stop, you know, in the nursing home. So you like you don't want to necessarily inherit when you can't use it. Yeah, so very complicated. You don't want to mess people's lives up, get your affairs in order.

SPEAKER_02
8:35

So, for an example, if it is somebody who doesn't have children, what should they do? Like it maybe, but do if they have um nieces or nephews or second cousins or things like that, is it best? Should they still do a a trust, like put it in their names for that?

SPEAKER_00
8:54

Or look, you're gonna want to name somebody who's like, you know, that's where that power of attorney comes in place that makes those decisions. Um you want if you know if that the person cares what happens, I may say, I want it spread across my nieces and nephews, I want it across my siblings, I want it to go to charities. Okay. Um, so that's where you would direct it. Otherwise, if there they name no one, the state is gonna have to step in and find someone that will make those decisions. And last thing you want to do of all the hard work you've done in your lifetime is have the state make a decision as to what happens with your assets.

SPEAKER_02
9:29

Does it have to be somebody that's related to you, or can it be a front?

SPEAKER_00
9:33

You can hire a professional person too.

SPEAKER_02
9:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00
9:35

You know, so you know, my husband and I don't have children, you know, we we've named our attorney um to make the decisions on our behalf, but uh all of our documents state our our desires. So they don't have to decide, they just have to execute our desires.

SPEAKER_02
9:49

Okay.

The First Days Of Widowhood

SPEAKER_02
9:50

So what should a widow do or not do when she all of a sudden she finds herself single and she feels obviously she feels overwhelmed, you know, yeah, with all of this, especially if she wasn't somebody who dealt with all of it. The like the financial part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00
10:06

This is so hard. This is where um we have a real specialty, and and people will call me a fierce widow advocate, and I I really want to make the the world easier for women. Um, and that pre-planning is so important because you know, I think about a friend um who whose husband went out for a swim to get to his boat and he didn't make it to the boat and he drowned. Oh this just happened. Um, she's waiting for him to come with the boat to pick her up at the predecided spot.

SPEAKER_01
10:34

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00
10:35

She is her whole world is just thrown into chaos. Yeah, this happened to another friend. She's standing at the airport waiting for him to come with the rental car because he says, You stay with the luggage, I'll get the rental car. And he never made it out of the rental car uh agency. So life changed like this. So, you know, you you need to have somebody, some buddies that you trust, whether it's children, best friends, sister, brother, a financial advisor. You need to have some people around you, your trusted team, that is going to be your eyes and ears to help guide you through this next period of days to weeks to months to, you know, to really, it's about a probably about a two-year process before you start to feel like your feet are underneath you. That's very true. And yeah, it's very um disconcerting. You know, I talked to a friend the other day, and and it will be uh two years in October, and she said, It has been such a hard month. And I said, Well, what have the triggers been? Well, we took my husband's car in for service. So that was like she still owns that car, and that was at the trigger point. And we have a boat, I see the boat, you know, the kids love using the boat, the adult kids, the grandkids. Um, and I keep thinking like how much he would have loved to be a part of this. So that just makes her a puddle. Um, so you don't know when the triggers will happen, and when you just will have like that day, you want to pull the covers over your head. So, but I, you know, for the definitely the initial days, you want I always tell people have a notebook because you're not gonna remember what was said to you. And there's gonna be so much important information that you want to be able to write it down. Um, and so that you can say, okay, I can go back and reference this. Um, I I just came back from a um fishing trip, and everybody on my with other women on the trip said you've got to watch the TV show The Madison. I don't know if you've watched it. No, I haven't. Uh, but it is about a widow and and that journey and those first days um of of having to figure out where to bury him, what to do with the property, what was his wishes, and she had the the I'll I'll say the additional um burden of her brother-in-law as well. She had to make decisions for his uh body because he was single, his wife had died, and it's just like dealing with the family members and their emotions. Like, you know, a lot of people will tell me like they're grieving, and like somebody else who loved their spouse is also grieving and turning to them to be comforted. It's like, I can't comfort you. Right. I'm in my own pain. Exactly. Um, there's just so many things, and that's partly why I wrote the journals that I wrote, just to help people have a place to put like their thoughts and emotions on a page or make a picture. I mean, it could be like you know, just scribbling, like you're just angry and you're scribbling, or it could be words or uh whatever it is to help you get things out and and out of your head, out of your heart, and just into some way that Jim can make some sense of things.

SPEAKER_02
13:38

And as I mean, yeah, especially if it's sudden, but even if it is a a long illness, it's still overwhelming when you have to start taking care of because you have whether it's the illness or it's sudden,

Passwords Paperwork And Death Certificates

SPEAKER_02
13:50

you have that health part of it, but then you have to deal with all this financial part. And that's really overwhelming as well, too, because then sometimes they're like, Well, I'm sorry, I can't talk to you about this, you're not on this account, or you don't have access to this. And you're like, Well, what do I do now?

SPEAKER_00
14:06

That is very true. So we're dealing with this situation now. A client who passed a few months ago, and we got them, got us the state work, we got things really buttoned up, but we're waiting for um tax ID numbers for the trusts. And the attorney, it's been uh two, three, four months, and we don't have them yet, and we keep asking, and it she just wants to get things done, and and she's trying to one of the parts of moving forward for her is getting things ticked off the to-do list and the paperwork, like you say, is is it overwhelming, and the amount of time you spend on a telephone getting circled, and I think that just continues to get worse as we have less people to talk to.

SPEAKER_02
14:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00
14:48

So I I know a lot of times with our clients, we will get, you know, we will help them through that. Get on the phone. All right, we'll sit with you on the phone through this, because we can be that financial translator where they would have gotten stuck, and someone would say, That's yeah, that's the form. And we're like, no. In the past, we've seen this type of form. And so having, you know, this is where a financial advisor or your estate planning attorney, like uh people who've been on that road, even that trusted friend who's just gonna be that advocate that says, No, we're gonna push for the right uh answer. No, do not hang up on us until we have this information. And so I think that's really key is who do you trust that will walk this journey with you? And there's so much paperwork. And um, and now one of the bigger challenges is less things come in the mail, and everything seems to come on the computer. So having the passwords for the accounts, the computer are really key because you know, a lot of people don't get statements except emailed. So you don't even know all the accounts that may have been out there. Um, and that's really frustrating. And you, you know, and if they had a cell phone, they put that number in, that phone may get phone calls, but you don't necessarily get phone calls uh because they didn't you weren't a secondary, and at some point you're gonna shut that phone off and like how do they find you?

SPEAKER_02
16:07

It's it is really because I'm I'm experiencing that current my dad is is in the hospital right now, and so I've been trying to help him with some of those things. And then it's like he he actually has a book with his passwords, and he's like, here it is, and so that's great. Except then when you go into passwords, then they go, Okay, now we'll text it to you know, the verification code. I'm like, okay, but then it goes to his phone, and I don't have his phone next to me. And I'm just like, I'm just trying to help him pay a bill.

SPEAKER_00
16:37

I was, you know. I have been there, my you know, one time my my my mom and dad, their um supplemental insurance, it there was just a one got paid through the automatic deposit, the other one didn't, so it got kicked. Uh, you know, now trying to get that back on auto payment. I I throw up my hands every quarter go I don't have the energy to do this. So I just write the check. Um, so I 100% understand where you're coming from. They say it's it's like this horrible loop, and you only have so much energy to spend in a day to tackle these problems.

SPEAKER_02
17:10

And especially because like right after somebody passes, and then you get those death certificates, there are so many like things you have to do. And yeah, you do, you you just feel so frustrated, and then it's very draining when you have to explain, well, this person just passed away and here's all, you know, to explain it all, and it becomes very draining and very triggering when you have to do it.

SPEAKER_00
17:33

Yeah, absolutely. That's why we created an after death check checklist, okay, which we have on our website on our resource page to help people just think about the things. And it's probably I know it's not exhaustive, but it it probably covers 80 to 90 percent of what will happen if you know, from immediately like you're having a funeral and like you make sure someone's at the house. Um, so that you know that that the plants are being watered and that nobody's gonna break in. I mean, it's like thinks about all the steps and then all the different paperworks you're gonna have to go through and how many copies of the death certificate you should have, and um, because you have to have way more than you think.

SPEAKER_02
18:08

I'm sure you found yeah, yeah. Uh well, yeah, my dad got a lot of the copies. I will say, my my mom, she told me long before she ever got sick what she wanted in terms of her service and things like that. I mean, she was actually the other extreme. She was kind of funny. She used to say she was gonna, it should be invitation only because if you weren't nice to her, didn't talk to her, you didn't need to come see her when she dies. It's like, okay, mom. You know, like she showed me what music she wanted played and all that, but it is also being able to sit down and have those conversations with people so you know what they want.

SPEAKER_00
18:46

And so many people are uncomfortable about talking about it. And you know, they always say that two certainties in life are death and taxes. I mean, it's going to happen to all of us. And a client of ours who's 95, maybe about 90, he said to me, You have to understand, I don't think I'm gonna die. Um, he's so cute, and he acts like he's not, and and in many ways it's great. Um, but I have forced them to have some discussions around that, and it's such a gift. And I think in your case, I think you told me you're um an only child. Yes. What gets really hard is that there's multiple siblings and there's different faith backgrounds or non-faith backgrounds, and it's like, well, mom didn't tell me that. Well, she told me I think we should do, and then you're fighting at it about it at a time when you're like you you're just so distraught. Uh the TV show The Madison was kind of like that. It was when um this it's actually a very interesting story uh around death and grief. Um and I actually am learning a lot professionally uh about emotions, even from a TV show.

SPEAKER_02
19:48

Well, it is. I I have found that illness brings out the worst in people.

SPEAKER_00
19:53

Yes. Yeah, illness, death, and money.

SPEAKER_02
19:56

Yes, it it it really, it really, really does. Um, and the person who kind of even though I'm an only child, I I I have friends that are in similar situations and they feel like they're an only child because it always tends to land on one person, so to speak, that they're always the one that's there, but then other siblings or that then come to them and they're arguing with them and they're like, okay, but you weren't here when this happened. Yeah, you know, and it it's very stressful. And then if like if you're the executor or things like that, it's hard for you know, you don't want to be in conflict with your family members either, uh, with it.

SPEAKER_00
20:36

I I give my husband a lot of credit um because he had one brother who was close, living in the same like building as his parents, and he would say, Who am I to second guess? He proximity is power, he's there, he sees it all the time, and he was really good about it. In my own family, you know, I it can be different. So I totally understand that.

SPEAKER_02
20:59

So, what kind of advice would you give somebody who was saying like the executor and they're fighting uh, you know, with all these different things?

SPEAKER_00
21:06

Uh with their interesting because I I called um a friend of mine who's dealing with this, his mom's past, he has one sibling, father's still alive, and he gave me some really good advice. Even though I'm in like in this business, he said to me, you have to remember that your parents or parent saw something in you and put this trust in you and gave you this responsibility, and you need to take that role on and know that that's what they would have wanted. Um, or that, you know, whether they're still here and maybe not as mentally aware. And that was really comforting to me because I do try to be the peacekeeper and I try to want to please people and you know, I'm I ultimately will make decisions, but you know, you you have to know that yes, you you are in charge, the buck stops here, and and that's what they wanted, and that you're going, you know, hopefully you really know the person. Like I'm dealing with my parents right now, I spend a lot of time with them. I know their wishes. I see them weekly. You know, I we talk about things. So um I just actually recorded a podcast with someone about this. Like, and and be the be the sibling that you know helps in other ways. If you physically can't be there, send DoorDash, send a meal, like be supportive. Call and say thank you. You know, it's yeah, you don't want to be the caregiver who says, you need to call me and thank me. Um but we do need thank yous. We need to be notice that this is hard. This is really hard. And I'm lucky in my say my parents are so sweet and they thank me. Um and and I I'm grateful for that. Then that's really the most important thing. They're grateful. So like look for your your look for your angels and helpers. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Um, you know, I just had to place a call to a cousin and said, Did you come help? We need to figure out some travel and a family wedding, and like one parent can go and one parent can't, and help. And like, they're here to help you. So um took me probably two months to call, and it's it was worth it.

SPEAKER_02
23:03

It is hard to ask for help. It really is, as you're a caregiver, because you just feel like that's your responsibility, and it's it's just hard. Uh, and sometimes you're just in the middle of it all, and everything is going on, and you just don't even stop to think, like, oh wait, someone else might be able to help me just to do this something simple, like you know, hey, could you sit with this person for a little while with it? It it is.

SPEAKER_00
23:27

I've asked neighbors, like we had really hot days. I'm like, can you just please make sure the air conditioning's on? Because they don't usually use it. Can you fix the the remote control?

SPEAKER_02
23:36

Like, yeah, that's a big one. Yeah, save me traveling 30 minutes. Yeah, they're like, I don't know what I hit, but I don't have my TV anymore. You're like, all right, I'll be right over. You know, it's just yeah, it's too hard to explain over the phone. Yes, just come over and show you. Although, in their defense, sometimes those remote controls, some of those buttons are really tiny. And it is they are tiny. It's easy for that.

SPEAKER_00
24:03

Um, because I gave up I gave up TV, so I don't use the remotes. Like, so these remotes, when I go over, they are huge with so many buttons. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I know I'm younger than you. I know I should not I don't know what to do with this.

SPEAKER_02
24:17

Yeah, it is. It's it's like seems to be uh that one is pretty popular. Like you hit something. And well, my mom used to get confused, like she would think that the remote control was the phone, you know. Or sometimes sometimes her remote control went missing, and it would take my dad and I sometimes a couple hours or days till we found it, and it was always in the most craziest spot. Like, how did she get that there? I just don't know.

SPEAKER_00
24:39

That's where um air tags, Apple AirTags are super important if you could tape it on. I'm not saying that the person may not take it off, right? But like if you can like try some of the like, you know, air tags have been a huge help with like pocketbooks and things with my mom. Like, you know, you find all these tricks and finding people that you can ask, like, how did you deal with this? That's a lifesaver.

SPEAKER_02
25:03

Oh, yeah, because like I have tried to tell people, you know, with dementia, you know, there is no cure. Hopefully, someday there will be. And you know, there was nothing I could do, but the only thing I could give her was peace. And that was all she ever wanted was peace in her life. And the the easiest thing, but the hardest thing is to enter their world. And, you know, if she said the sky was green, I went with it. And and I, but I was able to then be in the moment with her, and I'm grateful that I was finally learned how to do that because it's not an easy thing. It it's very, it's very hard to get to that point. But there were times where she would look at me and say, I know how hard this is on you. And I knew that was she was having a lucid moment, you know, for it.

SPEAKER_00
25:52

Yeah, and you treasure that you like that's the encouragement you need to like keep going.

SPEAKER_02
25:57

Yeah, because and it is hard because it's hard as a caregiver to step out of yourself and put yourself in your loved ones when they're struggling with things with it because your emotions are so high, you know. Yeah, it it's it's really hard, and then you add all that money issues

Caregiving Costs And Protecting Yourself

SPEAKER_02
26:15

into it, and it just makes you even crazier.

SPEAKER_00
26:18

Well, let me go touch on that for a moment. So, you as a caregiver, one of the things is you know, you gotta take care of yourself, both um physically, emotionally, and financially. So I I'm in a Facebook group called Working Daughters. I don't know if you've ever been in that one. No, I haven't. But like people will, you know, you know, they they will give up their work to go care for somebody, and they will dip into their retirement and they won't take care of their own finances because the parents did hadn't saved well. One, as a as a parent, someone who's older, please get your affairs in order so that you don't be a burden to your children. And then two, you can't put like, you can't go financially in in debt taking care of someone else either. You have to know this fine balance of like, okay, they really don't have any money and you're spending all your money, like you might have to look into social services for them. And and if you deplete yourself emotionally, spiritually, and financially, you're not gonna be able to caregive. And so there's this balance of like taking care of yourself in all those ways, um, so you don't burn out.

SPEAKER_02
27:25

And it is very easy to burn out as a caregiver. Yeah, it's very, very easy. And I think too that people sometimes they have um, I don't know, either they don't know how to approach social services or they feel like they shouldn't. But there's so many different uh in in every area, it's different, you know, every state and stuff, but they're there for people. And sometimes it it can really be helpful. You learn more of the resources that are available out there to help. And every little thing helps because it's expensive too when you get into whether it's assisted living or memory care or or an or any type of a nursing home. They're they're expensive with that.

SPEAKER_00
28:11

Yeah, and then in in our area of Massachusetts, a nursing home is probably about 20 grand a month. Um, it's you know, in other parts of the state, the south, I mean country that uh like the south, it's assisted livings might be 6,000 a month, where here it's probably more like 12,000. So it is very expensive. Um, and so my uh the way I always look at things is okay, this investment in XYZ um to keep my parents in their house is less expensive than one month in assisted living. And so I I like that's how I kind of measure spending, like the ROI on this will be good, you know, even if it's a couple months. Like uh how do I keep them independent, safe instead of going to a facility as as long as they're safe.

SPEAKER_02
28:57

Right. And I think that should be the benchmark for most people. Are they safe to be alone with it? Yep. And and it is hard to get to that point and to have those conversations with them to be like, because you know, they're gonna fight you on it, you know.

SPEAKER_00
29:12

Well, I think the other thing is at some point you realize you've become the parent and you've become the child. Yeah, and then it's hard to do that.

SPEAKER_02
29:20

No, no, you don't, but again, you want to keep them safe right for that. Right. So um we didn't get a chance to talk about your website yet. So what can people find out on your website? I was on it for a little bit as well, too. And you know your books too, you said we're on there.

SPEAKER_00
29:37

Yep, thank you. Um, the website we've done a great section on resources. So we've got um, you know, how to, you know, the after death checklist. Um we have a workbook for someone who knows that the curveball is coming. And so how do you prepare? You know, what are the things? How do you start to get things in order? How do you build your support team? Um, we have one after uh situations happen, it's called rebuild. And it's like, how do you rebuild your life? And uh thinking about things like that. We have tools for how to support um a widow at the holidays. That's a big deal. Holidays are super triggering for people, yes. Um, and you you know, we have resources on um a Medicare guide, you know, how to choose Medicare um when you're 65. We've got um, oh my gosh, I'm trying to think of all the different things we have. We have a blog that has a lot of great articles. I've actually started to use my own experiences around caregiving to write how to help aging parents, um, a lot of things that way, a lot of things on how to you know build wealth, a lot of ways into support widows. Um, there's just a tremendous amount. And everything we have there, we've created. So we're not just recycling somebody else's, you know, generic off the shelf. It is based on our professional experiences over 30 years. And that's where I, you know, we've got a YouTube channel that a lot of videos, you know, like what to say at a wake or funeral. That's like one of the hardest things. I did a TEDx talk on the power of the handwritten note. You know, how to write a note to somebody at a grieving time is tremendous. Um, so super important. So the the the two journals are, you know, about 200 inspirational quotes, 50 writing props per chapter, broken into 10 chapters on the on the grief cycle and the journey from like finding out you know, you've got to deal with this to sort of getting to the point where you're able to get on your feet and and move again. And people have told me how helpful it's been just have that touch point of like you know, a place to gather just to reflect and think, whether they write or not. You know, sometimes people start at the beginning, some people just poop, poop, uh, pop open a page.

SPEAKER_02
31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00
31:45

Um, and those are available on some local bookstores, but on Amazon. So that's been super helpful. And one of the nicest things, a woman, a widowed woman, was just gifted one from a friend. She called me and she gifted 50 copies to our local grief center. Oh, wow, that was very nice. Oh, it was the most touching thing that has happened, and um, you know, and I was able to give it to her at my you know, my author costs, and it was like a wonderful gift that will just ripple to so many other lives. That was really special.

SPEAKER_02
32:15

Uh, how does somebody prepare for a curveball?

SPEAKER_00
32:20

Oh, I think some of that, like we things we talked is getting your affairs in order, like, you know, being an organized person, you know, letting people know where things are, getting that estate planning work done. Um, you know, don't keep putting off for tomorrow. Like, oh, I'll get to it tomorrow, I'll get to it tomorrow. You know, have the hard conversations. Like you said, your mom told you what you wanted when when your mom approached you, did you go, no, no, no, I don't want to talk about it because I don't want you to die. It's like, no, you sit there and you listen um and and you engage, but too many of us will say, I'm too busy, not today. I heard um someone said the other day, like, I remember when my dad asked me at Thanksgiving to go for a walk, and I was like, Yeah, I'm not interested. It was like they were like in college, and he died, say like 15 years later, and she goes, I always regretted I didn't go for the walk that day. So, how how do you live life without regrets? Tell people that you love them, tell them what's important, tell them like why you did what you did. You know, we've seen situations where a father gives, you know, the the biological daughter, you know, a big annuity, and the the second wife doesn't get anything, um, gets the the house and some cash, but like, why did you do that? And now the they're fighting. They're you know, it's not usually a second relationship isn't great to begin with. And it's like, whose candlesticks are those? Like, yeah, you know, if you just had a conversation and said, This is my plan, like we do a lot of family facilitation of meetings of like, what do you want to see happen with that house, with that business, you know, and get people to talk about it. We did one last summer, and you know, there was there was I said to the the mother, I because I always pre-interview everyone, there's gonna be some hard things coming up. Yeah, she's like, All right, kids, you can just tell me straight. And so, like, put your armor on, you know, put your big girl pants on and go do it.

SPEAKER_02
34:10

Yeah, I mean, it it isn't pleasant to talk about it, but I was uh glad. Actually, my dad has told me too. Like, I know exactly what he wants as well, too, you know. Um yeah, I I've always appreciated and grateful that my mom never shied away from talking about death. You know, it just wasn't, you know, she just wanted I think because she experienced she had a lot of tragedies in her life, so it was almost you know, just part of her. So she kind of taught me that that it's just part of life as well. And yeah, you know, you just it's important to know those things because you don't know what will happen when it will, and then to be able to

Holidays Funerals And Saying Their Name

SPEAKER_02
34:50

honor that person's wishes, I think is what's important uh for that. And and it goes along too, like i I agree with you, holidays are very difficult for widows. What's the best thing that somebody can do to support them during a holiday season?

SPEAKER_00
35:06

I would say one is don't shy away, invite her to the party, go to lunch, send her a card, drop a gift off, ask about their family traditions. You know, the biggest thing is bring up his name. Say his name. That's like the sweetest thing. You know, I you know, my I'm thinking about my friend the other day, yesterday we just shared a hug and I was like, because you guys lived your faith out loud, you've encouraged me to live my faith more out loud. Because you donated to that charity and you brought me to come see what it does, that's why I made that gift. Like, you know, and and she said, Oh, thank you for telling me. Like, don't hide the stories. And I was like, share them. Um, be be aware and don't assume, oh, she won't want to come because she's a single, you know, let her make that decision. You know, and if you're doing, you know, a party with 12 couples, you know, go figure out something where you guys get to do something, or four women go do something, you know, right.

SPEAKER_02
36:10

Find a way. Right. And I think it's also important too that to be able to, especially like at holidays and Christmas or things like that, to be able to have that conversation. Like, do you still want to do that tradition this year? Or do you need to do something else? Or that it's okay if you don't want to put up the big tree this year. Right. You know, maybe you just want the small one. And I tell everybody too, I find comfort when people talk about my mom. Like I I I find comfort. Like I want to talk about her and laugh and in different things, you know. Uh, but I know sometimes people don't know what to say. And I'm like, well, I I want to talk about her. So I always try when I'm around people who have lost others. I I bring up them because I'm like, there's they're still alive in your heart, you know. Absolutely. And it I could tell it brings comfort, you know, and sometimes you want to talk about those funny things that they did, those, you know, those stories. Because as it goes on, that is what you remember. You don't remember as much as I mean, you never lose the illness or the sudden, if it was sudden, but then you think about before all that, you know, those good times.

SPEAKER_00
37:16

One of my favorite things to do at a wake or a funeral this time afterwards, especially if I didn't know the person, is tell me something that I didn't know about the person. Or tell me something you want me to know. And I did that. Uh, a friend's mother and the uncle is this brother's sister, started to say, we had a special needs sister, and my sister took care of her with such loving care. I didn't even know about the special needs sister. I learned so much in that five-minute conversation that was transformational. And he lit up talking about his two sisters, and it was like a it was a gift to me, and it was a double gift to him. So I you're you're on the right track.

SPEAKER_02
37:58

Uh it well, my mom, she said to me, she's like, because she decided she was gonna be cremated, and um she's like, I don't care what you do at the actions, you know, you keep them, don't keep them, put somewhere, put me somewhere peaceful, I don't care, you know. And then she was like, You could do whatever kind of service you want, maybe have people talk about me. I don't care. Do whatever you want. Like, okay. So anyway, we had a nice service for her, and I, you know, told family and friends, I was like, Well, we'll open it up and you can talk, talk about her, tell stories. And a couple of my my cousins' kids, because they were kind of like more like her her grandkids in some ways, you know, like she was very close to them, even you know, they were her great nieces and nephews, and uh they were like, Can we say this about Auntie Patty? I go, You can say whatever you want about Auntie Patty. And then they were telling the story, and everybody was laughing. They're like, but we just love when she did that. They were just like, you know, and I was like, say whatever stories you want, you know, and they had the best time, and people laughed at everything. I'm like, well, she would like that, you know, uh for that.

SPEAKER_00
39:00

You know, one of the things it's great that your mom gave you so much flexibility. One of the things I like, you know, a neighbor's husband just died and he wanted no services, he didn't want to put in the paper or anything. And remembering that um the services are often for the grieving and for the people who are still alive, and they need the touch point, they need that closure.

SPEAKER_02
39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00
39:21

Um, and I just saw uh you know, a friend that we know to a club that we're part of died during the pandemic, and so you know services got pushed off and then they never happened. And it went to this club last night and his name was um on a stone bench, and I was like, Chat, you know, like I I never had the closure, you know. So remember before you put too many restrictions on I don't want this or that, like though your loved ones might need something more.

SPEAKER_02
39:48

Yeah, even if it's like, hey, you're gonna throw a party, then that's fine. Throw a party for them and talk about all the fun things. It doesn't it it's sad, but it doesn't always have to be either. Right.

SPEAKER_00
39:59

You know, we had a widow come to us a couple um years ago, and her husband had a a form of dementia, um, kind of decline, and he was still in his 50s at the time. He didn't want anyone to know. She couldn't tell anyone he was sick for five years. And so when he died, she'd been anticipatory grief for so long, and it's sudden to everyone else. But for her, I mean, like the complications for that were just emotional complications, so hard. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02
40:28

Well, this has been so enlightening, so interesting. I've learned so much from you, Paula. So thank you, Lisa. So your website, and we'll put this on here. It's can you tell everybody what the website is? But I'll have the link as well, too.

SPEAKER_00
40:41

The business is WH Cornerstone Investments, so the website is WHCornerstone.com.

SPEAKER_02
40:46

Okay. And we'll put that on there as well for that. So thank you. Thank you so much. Hopefully, this has been very uh uh insightful for everybody, and they'll get myself included, get those documents together. So amen. That's all right. So hopefully you've enjoyed this episode of Patty's Place, and make sure you leave us a review, subscribe to our YouTube channel as well. And hopefully you enjoyed your cup of coffee, your cup of tea, or a really bad day, glass of wine, and join us for the next episode of Patty's Place.