I would love to hear from you. Send me questions or comments.
The hardest part of dementia caregiving is not always the hands-on care. Sometimes it is the moment you realize the bills are not getting paid, the mail is piling up, and your parent cannot explain what is going on. That is where money stress collides with grief and turns a family crisis into a full-blown scramble for information, access, and time.
We sit down with Dr. Fred Ramos, a longtime certified financial planner with a PhD in taxation, a nine-time best-selling author, and a Vietnam-era Coast Guard veteran. After four decades in financial services, he walked away from the traditional model because he believes the industry is often built to generate commissions, not protect people. Together, we talk about why early dementia can make someone the most exploitable person in the country, how “help” can become pressure, and why even well-meaning institutions can block caregivers from doing basic tasks like checking a credit card balance or managing a bank account.
We also get painfully practical: what to look for first (hint: it starts with the mail), how to track statements and subscriptions, why liquid cash matters more than paper assets during a crisis, and what memory care really costs. We break down estate planning essentials like power of attorney, trust vs will, probate realities, and why you may want 15 to 20 certified death certificates when you are settling accounts or dealing with a mortgage. Dr. Ramos also shares how to vet an advisor using FINRA BrokerCheck and the kinds of red flags that signal someone is not on your side.
If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with a caregiver who needs it, and leave us a review so more families can find support when dementia turns money into an emergency.
Here’s the link if they want the 10 min check; https://drrousenow.com/check/
Why Patty’s Place Exists
SPEAKER_02
0:06
Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we'll talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. I started this podcast in honor of my mom, who, Patty, who passed away from dementia about two and a half years ago. So I want this to be a place where you can feel like you're not alone and learn some good things to help you through this struggle. So grab your cup of tea, your cup of coffee if you haven't that really been a daily lesson line, and let's get started. So today I'm excited. We are talking to Dr. Fred Ramos. He has spent 40 years inside the financial services industry as a certified financial planner with a PhD in taxation. But in 2022, he voluntarily gave the credential benefit. He's also a nine-time best-selling author and a Vietnam-era Coast Guard veteran who spent three years running search and rescue. But today he teaches people over 50 how to recognize when someone is not on their side and he works with families dealing with the part of dementia and grief nobody warns them about, which is what happens with the money. So welcome, Dr. Fred.
SPEAKER_00
1:03
I appreciate you having me here.
SPEAKER_02
1:04
Yes, this is a very, very uh good topic because it's very overwhelming. Dementia itself is overwhelming, but then you got to deal with all that financial part. So uh let's start
Why He Quit Financial Services
SPEAKER_02
1:16
with. So you spent 40 years in financial services and then you gave the credential back. What did you see that made you walk away?
SPEAKER_00
1:24
After 40 years, again, the last 28 was a certified financial planner, uh, and I started out selling products, but the industry itself was not set up for people. The industry is set up to self-perpetuate and it just generates commissions for them. And it was pretty much irregardless of what happened to the people. And I primarily work on the retirement side of things, and people that I worked with, no matter what I did inside that standard financial practice routine, just wasn't doing anything for them. And by the time they hit age 50, 55, 60, they really didn't have enough money uh to retire any way, shape, or form. And so I had to do something different. I just uh this is it, you know, six, eight, ten percent a year is what the best you're gonna do for somebody. Uh and it's not working for them. So I went out and did something different.
SPEAKER_02
2:15
Okay. All right. So what you started, you you've written um you're a nine-time best-selling author, so you have some current books as well, too, right now.
SPEAKER_00
2:26
Um, the the the most current one is um it's terrible. It runs together after a while.
SPEAKER_03
2:33
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00
2:35
Yeah. Um retirement isn't optional. Uh enjoying it is.
SPEAKER_03
2:39
Well, yes.
SPEAKER_00
2:40
And uh that's it's an interesting book. Uh it could be of some interest to your people, but I I think there's other things on their mind when you're stuck in a situation where you've got family that you're trying to take care of and you're taking care of your own family yourself. Um, the books are nice, and I I had a good time doing them. Um produce for a number of different, you know, um or writing uh videos and documentaries, but that doesn't help your folks.
SPEAKER_03
3:06
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
3:07
Your folks are stuck in a situation where things happened. Didn't expect them to happen, but things happen now, they're stuck taking care of a parent. Or two.
SPEAKER_02
3:18
This is true.
When Money Slips Before Diagnosis
SPEAKER_02
3:19
So you you mentioned you say the money goes before the diagnosis does. So what can we talk a little bit? I understand what you're saying, but can we expand on that a little bit?
SPEAKER_00
3:30
Certainly. What happens is parents are fine until they're not. And then what generally happens is that the closest person, who's generally a daughter, has to take care of these things.
SPEAKER_03
3:45
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00
3:46
Okay, you're you were there. Okay you understand exactly what goes on, and you know, there could be other family members, but you're the closest, so you're expected to do these things. Well, you've got your own life to begin with, and most women, by their nature, are caregivers to some degree and take care of the household, the family, and their needs come last. It just works that way, it's not supposed to, but it does. And here's here's your parent, and oh yeah, my mom's, you know, she she forgot my name, and it is cute for a little while, and then she forgot the kid's name. Well, that's that's sort of cute. She's just getting a little older, and then things happen, and it's getting more progressive, and you don't know what's going on, and then you stop over one day, and either mail's piled up or it's it's actually opened, which doesn't happen too often, and there's two and three months worth of bills stacked up there. And so it's the mail that gives it way. When the mail piles up, then there's a problem, and then you reckon, oh well, well, this was cute before, but if there's something serious going on right now.
SPEAKER_02
4:55
And I think, and I think also what happens too is that in my mom's case, I think my dad started to notice that because my mom used to pay all the bills, but I think he did start to notice, and then he just started taking over paying the bills because he had a very hard time accepting that something wasn't quite right. And I think when you, you know, because my parents were married over 50 years. So I think you also have that issue where like you see something with the one, and then you have the other one not quite ready to deal with it. So, you know, they're taking over that side of it.
Why Seniors Get Exploited
SPEAKER_02
5:30
But also, why you also say that why is someone in early dementia the most exploitable person in the country?
SPEAKER_00
5:39
In your own situation, your dad didn't handle bills on a routine basis, and that's fine. There's generally some type of differentiation between who handles what in the household. Right. And that's accepted over a period of time. But when you notice there's a problem and then you're trying to take care of those things, now you're outside your own wheelhouse.
SPEAKER_06
5:59
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00
5:59
Yeah. And at some point in time, you you go looking for some outside help. Well, being a senior itself is a dangerous thing.
SPEAKER_01
6:08
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00
6:09
Being a senior in these days, okay, is dangerous because what happens is you know, you did everything right for 30, 40 years, and now here you are saying 50, 60, 65, 70, 75, and the money is not really there the way everybody told you it was going to be there. So you're already cutting back some on your lifestyle. And then because of that, okay, money is not my thing. I need some outside help here. And so you go looking and you look for advisors basically. And you don't want to burden your family with those things, so you you check out advisors. Well, the industry is really interesting in that when you get that age group, they're the easiest ones to sort of persuade. And they're not necessarily working in your best interest. Again, they're working in their interest, and that tends to be a little bit of a problem. And you're stuck in a house and you're stuck with your loved one who's trying to take care of things that are outside of the wheelhouse to begin with, and you're really not certain, and you feel shame, you feel guilt. Okay, well, I I was doing all this stuff before, and now my poor spouse has to take care of these things, and they shouldn't have to do those things. And then here you are as a child walking in, and God, I didn't want any of this stuff to happen to my folks, but now it is. Now what do I do? And all of a sudden now they're really, really exposed to outside people that they would not normally see at all.
SPEAKER_02
7:41
Well, in one instance, uh, with me and my dad, um, my mom luckily had my mom and dad had both done the power of attorney, and and that had it long before she had gotten sick. So my dad and I were at the bank and we were like trying to figure out stuff because my mom was on my account just as a name, you know, and of course my mom did share an account and I was on a few of the accounts just because they wanted in case of emergency type of a thing. Well, what we were going to do, I forget what exactly it was. We didn't know if we should take her off of the accounts or not, you know? And they were like, well, we need to talk to her. And and we brought the power of attorney at the bank. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, she has dementia. And I was like, I go, I I could sit right next to her and tell her exactly what to say. She does not understand. And they were like, Well, we still need to talk to her to protect her. And I'm like, so my dad and I were like, okay, just forget it. We'll just leave her on the account. It was so frustrating, you know.
SPEAKER_00
8:44
Everybody's got their own little things. Yeah. And they think they're working to protect somebody, and they're really not.
SPEAKER_04
8:49
No.
SPEAKER_00
8:50
They're there to protect themselves.
SPEAKER_04
8:52
Right.
SPEAKER_00
8:53
And to get somebody off an account, it's it's a challenging thing. And you know, if she's there and nothing happens, that's fine. But if she's there and somebody gets hold of her and they get her to sign things, which happens quite often, right? Then there's a problem because the money just disappears. And you don't know about it until after the fact.
SPEAKER_02
9:13
Right. Yeah. So it it it it is. It's like people think they know what dementia is, but then when it comes to the financial part, they they don't understand. Like she's not, she was not capable of making any of those decisions with it. So, like, luckily, too, my dad went and updated his will and everything because he didn't want something to happen. Like, if something had happened to me, she was the first, you know, obviously it went to her and then me, but he put it in there because he knew uh if something had happened to me and she was still there, she wouldn't have been able to understand anything. So he he moved it, you know, to me on it. He at least he thought he thought he he thought about all that because he knew she's not capable of it at the time.
SPEAKER_00
9:57
There's a lot of last-minute estate planning that happens at this point in time. And you know, the wills are fine if things are in a trust, it's even better because it's easier to change trustees than it is to change a will. Okay. But again, every time you do another legal thing, it involves more outside people, more expenses and more time. Well, you have your own family. Okay, you take care of your family too. And you want to take care of your folks, you want to help out as much as possible, but your life is always short on time. People don't understand. At age 50 plus, okay, it's not the money, it's the time.
SPEAKER_05
10:37
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
10:38
Money you can make, but you can't change the time. Right. And that's the biggest thing. What are you gonna do with your time? What do you want to do? Okay, how is it best for you to spend your time for you? And as a caregiver, as part of the family trying to help out, you don't have much choice at this point in time. Your personal life is pretty much trashed.
SPEAKER_03
10:58
Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_00
11:00
Most of your life now goes to your parents taking care of the situation, and it wasn't intended, but your life is on hold for one, two, three, five years or more until that person passes. And even then, you're not right for the next year or two.
SPEAKER_02
11:16
No, no, you are not.
SPEAKER_00
11:18
And people don't understand that at all.
SPEAKER_02
11:20
No, no, they really don't.
Memory Care Sticker Shock
SPEAKER_02
11:22
And then also the cost, like you said, you know, you you try to plan for retirement because you you have this idea that, oh, I'll retire, I'll be able to travel, do kind of what I want. But my dad and I were shocked at how much memory care costs. Um and this was we went to a private, because you either have to do the Medicaid or you have to do um private. And my dad was paying $7,000 a month for that. Um he, I mean, he did, he cut back on a lot of things to be able to, so she had the good care, but you're just shocked by it. The like how do people pay for that?
SPEAKER_00
12:06
Most of them don't. If you've got it planned right, okay, medicated when you're broke. Right. But you have to plan for that two or three years ahead of time to make certain that you're broke on paper.
SPEAKER_06
12:17
Right.
SPEAKER_00
12:18
It's to lead a reasonable life. Okay. And if you can find somebody to help you do that, that's great. But those people are far and in between. And then the cost of those people is also expensive.
SPEAKER_01
12:29
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
12:30
So you're you're coming up short every which way.
SPEAKER_02
12:34
Yeah, I mean, it it's it's unbelievable how expensive uh memory care, even assistant living care is. And it's not any cheaper if, you know, some I've had friends where they they've brought caregivers into their houses, but they're still paying. So it's it's still not it, it's not cheap at all to try to take care of somebody. Yeah, plus you have a stranger in your house.
SPEAKER_00
12:59
No, I don't.
SPEAKER_02
13:00
Yeah, and that so it doesn't always work with Samancha either. So what so let's say if uh you you you have in here that like what happens to a widow in the first 90 days, and why does it happen then? Especially if it's somebody who like never paid the bills.
SPEAKER_00
13:19
First, you know, week two weeks is is you know, it's terrible, it's rough. But all the neighbors are coming over with food.
SPEAKER_04
13:27
Right.
SPEAKER_00
13:27
And everything's, you know, they're there to help and support you as best they can.
SPEAKER_04
13:31
Right.
SPEAKER_00
13:31
And you're still stunned. You're gonna, you know, my parents just died. Okay, and now I got all these people. I mean, I like you, but yeah, too many people stay away from me. Exactly. Right? Am I missing this? Right, right. Because at age 50, uh, your circle is relatively small by choice.
SPEAKER_01
13:48
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00
13:49
Well, you were 20 and somebody was so crazy, and so you spent some time with them. Right. But age 50, oh no, you're crazy. I can tell it. It's okay. Just do it over there. Exactly. Okay, this is my space, leave me alone. But everybody wants to come in and show their condolences and and see if they can help, but they really can't help. But you know, it it's the thing to do, it's a social thing. Right. And that's okay. But then what happens is three or four weeks out, all those people disappear now. You're there with an empty house, and your son, you know, what the hell just happened to me?
SPEAKER_05
14:25
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00
14:27
My parent just died. Okay, all their bills are stacked up here. I had all these people come over, they messed up my house. Okay, I gotta clean up now after all these people trying to help out. Okay, and now I'm here, I'm halfway cleaned up, return all these dishes and pirates things, and but you know, now what the hell do I do? And at that point in time, you know, you're feeling guilty because yeah, you're happy that they're passed to a degree.
SPEAKER_04
14:54
Right.
SPEAKER_00
14:56
Okay, and it's a lot of relief. But now what do you do at that point in time? Okay, and that's the hard part because now you've got all this free time and your life hasn't come back to you yet.
unknown
15:11
Right.
SPEAKER_00
15:12
Your life is still on hold. And people that are not there, they just do not understand it. It's a it's a lived experience.
SPEAKER_02
15:20
It truly is a lived experience.
SPEAKER_00
15:22
Just do not understand it.
SPEAKER_02
15:24
No, you you really, you, you really don't understand it because yeah, you're you're trying to take care of them, and then there's it isn't just you have that physical part where you're actually there, caregiving, but then you have all this other stuff to take care of, you know, like the finances, like you know, when you go start to go through all their their things and stuff like that, you may find bills that you can't read.
Start With Mail And Statements
SPEAKER_02
15:48
Like, how do what are some of the most important things that somebody should look at to take care of with that if they're trying to take over someone's finances?
SPEAKER_00
15:59
It's important to track down the statements, obviously. It all starts with the mail. So you've got to go through the mail. Um and you've got the mail on one hand with these pile of things that appear to be due. They may or may not be due because now that person's passed on and may not be responsible, depending on how things are set up.
SPEAKER_04
16:20
Right.
SPEAKER_00
16:21
Okay. Well, past bills. I mean, you got credit card bills and this person is now passed on. How obligated are you to pay the credit card bill? Uh-uh. I don't know. Right. Okay, that's something for you and your trainer to pick up on. Okay, and that's the thing because you're settling on how much cash is left now.
SPEAKER_03
16:40
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
16:41
It's a big thing. How much liquid cash do you have? Assets are fine, but assets are just that. They're pieces of paper. They say that there's some value there. Stocks, bonds, real estate, lovely things. But if you need cash, those things don't help you. You can't go to the grocery store or to the funeral home, the funeral homework took their money because they get the life insurance line over to them immediately.
SPEAKER_04
17:09
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00
17:10
So they're halfway covered. Right. But you still need things to take care of the rest of the household. What are you gonna do with the house now? Right. Is it still on the house? How much of a mortgage is there?
unknown
17:22
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00
17:22
Does it have mortgage insurance on it or not? You don't know any of that stuff. And even with the best laid plans, okay, these things could all be scattered in different places. And now you're going through the house, you're going through clothes, you're going through dishes, you're going through old tools for his dad's stuff. Okay. Where is their stuff at? I'm from an Italian household and they used to hide money all the time. Always hit cash someplace.
SPEAKER_04
17:48
Right.
SPEAKER_00
17:48
So you're going through stuff, and here's a coffee can. There's no coffee in it. There's a couple thousand dollars in there. Well, that was interesting.
SPEAKER_04
17:54
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
17:56
It's part of the thing. And then you get the rest of the family coming over, and I don't know how it was for your family. Okay. My family was interesting when my grandparents passed, and everybody comes in and they start putting little stickers on things with their name on it. They're clearing out the house already. Well, she said I could have that. He said I could have that. And here you are, you're trying to take care of things, and you don't know what the hell's going on. Right. You were there the most. And now the older brother says that he's entitled to this. Or the older sister says she's entitled to this. Or the younger sister says she's entitled to that. You're the one who's doing all the stuff. They weren't there.
SPEAKER_04
18:38
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00
18:39
They came at the last minute. Okay. And now everybody's got their hands into things. They're sorry to say when there's money on the table, people get ugly.
SPEAKER_03
18:47
Yes, they do.
SPEAKER_00
18:49
People don't believe it's gonna happen, but it happens every every time. If you can set things up ahead of time, that's great. If it's not, you're trying to clean up after the fact, and those statements mean a lot. Because those statements do represent some type of asset that now you have to convert to cash generally. And so it's a really complicated thing to do. And again, people look to outside sources for help. And that gets to be a problem because you don't know who your outside source is going to be.
Online Accounts Lock Caregivers Out
SPEAKER_02
19:21
So let's say that they have it, maybe they do some things online. I have a perfect example. Uh my my dad uh has been in and out of the hospital the last few months, and so he pays his credit card, he calls on the phone. And uh, of course, I'm I'm on his bank accounts, but I'm not on his credit card. So uh they wouldn't tell me the balance because I'm not an authorized user. I understand that, but I'm trying to pay his bill. So it is quite frustrating, or even like to to to log in to a bank account, I'm still not on his. So, like, what should somebody do when they're trying to take care of these things? Like a credit card, for example, if you're not on the credit card, how do you find out the balance? Because they won't talk to you.
SPEAKER_00
20:14
You're sort of screwed sorry. Yeah, and you know that, right? Even if your spouse was on a credit card, unless you're on the card, they're not gonna let you know anything. Right. It's very strange. And when you pay it online, that's great for them.
SPEAKER_04
20:30
Right.
SPEAKER_00
20:31
But here you are, the caregiver, you've got to do a paper trail.
SPEAKER_04
20:34
Right.
SPEAKER_00
20:35
You have a bank account, oh yeah, the money went out for what? Because now they don't want to send out statements anymore. No, they don't have money to send out statements, so it's all online. So unless you've got all this stuff coordinated ahead of time, and you don't know what that ahead of time actually is.
SPEAKER_02
20:53
No, you don't.
SPEAKER_00
20:54
That's part of the problem. These things just creep out of nowhere. It doesn't happen bang overnight. It just creeps little things at a time. And you don't notice it until you've got a full-blown problem. Something's not right, but I don't know what. It'll be okay.
SPEAKER_03
21:11
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
21:12
You can do that for a month or two months, and then it compounds and gets worse and worse and worse, and then you're sort of stuck. And now it's almost too late to get information from these people. Your loved ones basically to track down every single account that they have is difficult. You have to go through their wallet, every credit card that they actually have in their possession. And you gotta look through the drawers with the credit cards there that they used once, and now they've got a subscription, they just keep paying and paying and paying. So you've got to get all the credit cards, find out who owns what. And then is this an online account? In today's world, it's very, very difficult. You've got to get with that person while they're still cognizant of what's going on. And then do they trust you that much?
SPEAKER_05
22:13
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
22:13
Yeah, you're their daughter. Yeah, you're their son. Right. But this is my stuff.
SPEAKER_02
22:18
Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00
22:20
And they they don't want to let go.
SPEAKER_02
22:22
No, it is hard. And so, like for my dad's situation, it was either I said, you either have to add me onto the account. I said, I don't want to use your credit cards. I just want to pay these. Well, you can't pay them right now. I said, or if you're still getting the physical bill because he doesn't, he likes to get, you know, the physical statement, then okay, they go, then I can write the check. That was okay because I'm on the bank account for, you know, so it's it is it's frustrating. So what does somebody do? Like, say, if if my if their loved one is passed already, can't do they have to show the death certificate then in order to pay that?
SPEAKER_00
23:03
Will that work or if they were liable for the bill and they've passed, guess what? You're not liable for the bill.
SPEAKER_03
23:12
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00
23:13
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03
23:15
But so what happens?
SPEAKER_00
23:17
You can check with an attorney on that one, and you probably should.
SPEAKER_02
23:19
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
23:20
But if they were on the account, there are open bills, they're unpaid, they've passed. There's no way for them to collect now.
SPEAKER_02
23:28
So even if you're the exact say you're the executor of the will, that you're not responsible for that, like what will happen?
SPEAKER_00
23:35
You want to check with an attorney on that one to find out. But for all intents and purposes, those bills have stopped.
SPEAKER_03
23:40
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
23:41
The obligations have stopped. Now, if you're the executor, you know, how much are they going to come after you for?
unknown
23:47
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
23:48
Come after the account.
SPEAKER_03
23:50
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
23:52
Okay. So they can't get to him, but do they have an estate there? What's in the estate? How how big is the bill?
SPEAKER_05
24:00
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00
24:01
And if it's $100, $200, maybe a thousand, two thousand dollars, how much are they going to chase for two thousand dollars? It's gonna cost them three thousand dollars in attorney's fees.
SPEAKER_04
24:12
Right.
SPEAKER_00
24:14
Just to file anything.
unknown
24:16
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
24:17
Is it worth their time or not?
SPEAKER_03
24:19
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
24:20
A number of things it will drop off.
SPEAKER_03
24:22
Okay. But it's always good to check.
SPEAKER_00
24:24
But again, it's important to check.
SPEAKER_03
24:27
Right. Check with the attorney.
SPEAKER_00
24:28
It all depends on how the estate is set up.
SPEAKER_03
24:31
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
24:31
Because if it's a if it's a will, then there are things in the will. If it was a trust, all of a sudden now nothing's in the will. Because the will is only there to transfer property.
Trust Versus Will In Real Life
SPEAKER_02
24:42
So what's the difference for what's the difference between if you set something I'm gonna trust as opposed to somebody just writing a will?
SPEAKER_00
24:51
When I was practicing, and I still have a few clients right now, yeah, I hand over the entire practice almost 15 years ago, just gave it away to somebody I had worked for in the past. But I would routinely set up a trust.
SPEAKER_03
25:04
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
25:05
And all the assets were uh placed inside of the trust.
unknown
25:10
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
25:11
And the trustee would then be responsible to take care of things. They had a will, but the will covered anything that was not inside the trust. And if there's something not inside the trust and I pass, I want to transfer to the trust.
SPEAKER_03
25:28
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
25:29
That way the will was basically a useless piece of paper because there were no assets to transfer.
SPEAKER_03
25:36
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
25:37
All the accounts, all the real estate, all the large assets were all already in the trust.
SPEAKER_03
25:43
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
25:44
And that's the critical thing because now it's easy to transfer a trustee. Oh, okay. So it's easy to change.
SPEAKER_03
25:50
Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00
25:52
It's an internal document.
SPEAKER_03
25:54
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00
25:56
Versus a will, which is all probated now.
SPEAKER_03
25:59
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
26:00
It goes to the county. Everybody's looking at it.
SPEAKER_03
26:02
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
26:03
Trust is a very private situation. You've got much more control over a trust.
SPEAKER_02
26:06
Oh, okay. Those are things people much more control. So let me ask you this. So you're talking, we're talking about the property, and your parent dies and or your your spouse dies, and or I should say your parent dies. We'll go with that one. And the house is in their name. You're not on, you were not on the deed, but they still owe a mortgage. So how and of course the bank won't talk to you because you're not on the account. So how do you handle that?
SPEAKER_00
26:39
At that point in time, you go in an inappropriate situation. Okay. Okay. The house is is now in the will. Hopefully there is a will.
SPEAKER_03
26:48
Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_00
26:50
If there's not, that creates another problem by itself.
SPEAKER_03
26:52
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
26:53
But now, who's it go to in the will? Who's the executor at will?
SPEAKER_03
26:57
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
26:57
That person now responsible for this thing. And you want a shit ton of death certificates.
Death Certificates And The Mortgage
SPEAKER_03
27:02
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
27:03
15, 20 of them. Get them all.
SPEAKER_03
27:06
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
27:07
Because everybody's going to be asking for one.
SPEAKER_03
27:09
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
27:09
Any asset that is out there, not inside of a trust, out there by itself in that person's name, they're pretty much going to want a death certificate.
SPEAKER_02
27:18
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
27:19
So if you present means all the cars and anything else, all the vehicles.
SPEAKER_02
27:22
Right. So if you present the death certificate, say to the mortgage company, and you do you have to show them that you're the executor, and then will they talk to you?
SPEAKER_00
27:32
At that point in time, they married yes.
SPEAKER_03
27:35
Okay. Okay. With that.
SPEAKER_00
27:37
But again, do you want to show everybody all that paperwork every time?
SPEAKER_04
27:41
Right.
SPEAKER_00
27:42
So if you can get things done ahead of time, that's ideal. Most after-the-fact stuff is twice as much work with half as much result.
SPEAKER_02
27:53
Yeah. And how do you get how do you approach your if your pain and I've been, I was lucky. My parents, we had a we had some family members go through some illnesses. And so that prompted them to do like powers of attorney for healthcare, for finance, and do the will. So I I was lucky in that way. But how what's the easiest way for someone to approach their parents or or even their spouse or that to say, hey, we need to set this stuff up. Because again, you could be in your 30s and this could happen to you. Right.
SPEAKER_00
28:32
Now, when you're 60 and 70, you know you're going to die at some point in time. You know, when you're 30, you don't talk about it at all. Right. When you're 70, hey, I know I'm not going to have to live forever. Now, how they want to handle it is a different situation. And it's easy to say, yeah, I want to die at some point in time, and we should take care of these things. But actually doing them is a very different situation. Acknowledging that the problem exists is one thing. Handling the problem is something totally different. Yeah, I'm 70. I know I probably shouldn't be driving as much. Okay. Makes sense. Okay. Okay. Give me your car keys.
SPEAKER_02
29:11
Right. No. Oh, no, no, no. I'm I'm driving local. It's okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
29:16
There you go. Okay. That's just a car.
SPEAKER_02
29:19
Right, right. Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
29:24
If they got any brokerage accounts.
SPEAKER_02
29:26
Right.
SPEAKER_00
29:26
If they want actually real estate.
SPEAKER_04
29:28
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00
29:29
No, no, no. They understand the problem. They just don't want to deal with it.
SPEAKER_04
29:34
Right.
SPEAKER_00
29:36
And sorry as as caregivers are stuck in a really bad way. And you mentioned, you know, a glass of wine ahead of time when you started. Really more than that.
SPEAKER_04
29:49
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
29:50
Okay. Because you know what you're going to do is right. It's not for you, it's for them. And they fight you every step of the way.
SPEAKER_03
30:00
Yes, they do.
SPEAKER_00
30:01
They acknowledge your problem. Well, it yeah, I understand. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, I understand. But they're like kids. Mm-hmm. They are. How many times do our kids do something? Yeah, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it, but it never gets done.
SPEAKER_04
30:13
Right.
SPEAKER_00
30:14
They just change. Now it's your parent doing the same thing to you. You did to them when you were 12.
SPEAKER_04
30:19
Right.
unknown
30:20
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
30:21
Things change.
SPEAKER_02
30:22
Right. Exactly. So the best thing is if you could try to talk to them, obviously to talk before something happens, but a lot of times it doesn't.
No Power Of Attorney Options
SPEAKER_02
30:36
So then what does a caregiver do? What if they don't have a power of attorney? What can they do then?
unknown
30:42
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
30:42
You're stuck behind the eight ball.
SPEAKER_02
30:44
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
30:45
Big time. Because outside of physically taking care of them, physically taking care of the household, along with your household and your health to some degree, it's just starting to deteriorate quickly because of all the stress.
SPEAKER_04
30:55
Right.
SPEAKER_00
30:56
Okay. Now you're playing catch-up on a situation where you can't catch up. Okay. If it wasn't fixed ahead of time, your chance of fixing it drop off every day. It goes longer.
SPEAKER_03
31:09
Okay. So what would you suggest?
SPEAKER_00
31:13
If you don't fix it early on, your chance to fix it later on, drop off every day because time is working against you. So what health situations working against them.
SPEAKER_02
31:21
So what would be the first thing that you would suggest somebody does? Obviously go through their mail and everything, but what can they do if they don't?
SPEAKER_00
31:31
If they don't want to do anything, it's how badly do you want to do these things? Restoratives.
SPEAKER_03
31:40
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
31:42
Because it would not be the first time a kid had to go in front of a court and declare a parent incompetent.
SPEAKER_03
31:51
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
31:53
That's an ugly thing to do.
SPEAKER_03
31:55
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
31:56
I guarantee you, absolutely guarantee, it will raise all hell in the family.
SPEAKER_01
32:03
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
32:04
And you'll be the most evil son of a bitch that ever existed.
SPEAKER_01
32:07
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
32:08
The devil will be better than you.
SPEAKER_01
32:10
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00
32:11
Okay. And so here you are, you're stuck, you're trying to help. Your parents are fighting you every step of the way. And now you get your family fighting you also.
SPEAKER_01
32:20
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00
32:21
And when you say, okay, you do it, they all scatter.
SPEAKER_01
32:26
Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_00
32:28
They all scatter. Everybody's got an opinion. Everybody's wanting to give it to you, but nobody's willing to do anything.
SPEAKER_03
32:35
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00
32:36
Exactly. Yeah. Well, they feel to be it, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02
32:40
Yeah. So what is what does somebody do then, obviously, after the parent has passed, and then there's fighting.
Executor Stress And Family Fights
SPEAKER_02
32:48
You know, if their parent did lay it out and say the money or the house, or you know, they wanted to give it to certain people or that, then what do you do if you're the executor?
SPEAKER_00
33:00
Understand. People get ugly, especially family.
SPEAKER_01
33:07
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
33:07
Especially family. You would never have believed it 10 years ago, but after it happens, people get amazingly ugly. And if you're the executor, you want to try and do it as hands-off as possible and try and blame it on somebody else. And so you look to bring some outside sources. Well, I'd like to do that, but this other person said this. And when I work with clients way back when, I always told everybody. I work primarily with small businesses, zero six employees when I was actually working. And I told everybody, look, tell everybody yes, yes, yes. I'll do whatever you want, as long as Dr. Fred says so. See, he's if he says so, no problems at all. Check with him first. The aggregation stop right then and there. Because nobody bothered to check with me.
SPEAKER_03
33:56
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
33:57
Because they they they knew they were gonna get a no.
SPEAKER_03
33:59
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
34:01
So they quit aggravating a poor person now.
SPEAKER_03
34:03
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
34:05
Finding that person who could do that for you.
SPEAKER_03
34:07
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
34:08
It's gonna be difficult.
SPEAKER_02
34:09
Okay. So they need to find somebody like like yourself or or a lawyer or something. Yeah, somebody they can blame it on to make their life a little bit less stressful after all that.
SPEAKER_00
34:21
A little bit less stressful. I'd like to help, but yeah, this person takes care of everything. I I really can't do anything at all.
SPEAKER_02
34:26
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
34:27
If they say so, no problem at all.
SPEAKER_02
34:29
Okay. Okay. So what do you think is the thing families find out too late?
SPEAKER_00
34:39
The thing they find out really too late is that nobody sees this coming at all. Nobody saw this thing coming at all. It creeps, it's a little bit of a creep. Every day, every month, every phone call, something's just a little bit off. And you don't exactly know what goes on with it. And then when the money gets involved, who are gonna you're gonna try and find some outside advisor to help along the way. I don't do those things at this point in time. Okay, I'm way too old, I'm retired, I can enjoy myself. Uh I've got a place in Delaware right by the water. Um it's lovely. But what do you do as the caregiver now?
SPEAKER_05
35:24
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00
35:24
You want to find some type of outside help. And it's important to do that and to pull somebody in. Okay. And there are tons of people who will call themselves financial advisors, and you want to pull at least one of those people in, they're gonna be cheaper than attorneys generally.
SPEAKER_03
35:42
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
35:43
They'll give you tons of advice. Um not exactly legal advice, okay, but they'll give you tons of advice so they don't charge you by the error. But you have to watch these people because again, if the industry is set up to self-perpetuate, okay. Are they really working for you or are they working for themselves? And that's a hard thing to do. So it's a hard thing to find.
SPEAKER_02
36:07
What how can somebody protect themselves so that they're finding somebody who's legit and have the legit credentials? What should they look for?
Vet Advisors With BrokerCheck
SPEAKER_00
36:14
Okay. Um, there's a government site, um, been a uh broker check. Um, in fact, I'd like to offer your folks something free at this point in time. Um, if they go to uh drrouse now.com forward slash check. Um I'll give them a free cheat sheet basically.
SPEAKER_03
36:36
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
36:36
Six points on here where they can go and they can ask somebody point blank. You know, are you working for me or working for yourself?
SPEAKER_03
36:44
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
36:44
How are you getting paid? Now it's free. It's just just sign up, put your email in, you can download it, no big deal. Um and I'll I'll give you a link afterwards, make sure it's in your show notes.
SPEAKER_03
36:56
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
36:57
Um but it's a great little thing. It's an easy way to find out if somebody's actually working for you or not.
SPEAKER_03
37:06
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
37:07
Because it's a government-run site, it's free, it's nothing to sign up for. And you can check any financial advisor you want.
SPEAKER_03
37:14
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
37:14
Put their name in, put their numbers in. Pulls up all the problems. Any disclosure problems? Right there. Okay. So you know exactly what goes on. Um, watch insurance agents that call themselves financial planners, um, because the insurance agent just is an insurance agent.
SPEAKER_03
37:34
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
37:35
Whatever they do, they're gonna stay some type of insurance. There aren't too many insurance agents at this point in time. Um, most of them are brokers to some degree, handling stocks, mutual funds, and/or life insurance. Um, and and they love long-term care insurance. Big commissions and that stuff for them.
SPEAKER_03
37:50
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
37:51
Um there's nothing wrong with long-term care insurance, but do you really need it or not? Right. Just like the numbers say, and they're they will always have numbers that make it look like, well, you're you're you're gonna you're gonna die, and you're gonna need this long-term care insurance because you don't exactly die, but it's really important to have this long-term care insurance, and you have to make your own judgments on that. Okay, like this is why I quit selling products years ago. It was like walking an alligator swamp. You knew you're gonna get paid, you just didn't know how much.
SPEAKER_02
38:22
Okay.
Key Takeaways And Closing
SPEAKER_02
38:23
Well, yes, we will put that in the show notes because that's very helpful uh for all of our f our listeners because it is very overwhelming, the the caregiving part and then the financial part. It's just it's a lot to handle. It really is. For it. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Frag, for being with us today. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00
38:46
I appreciate the time and you know, hopefully uh it helps some of your folks. You know, I understand where they're at. It's a very difficult position to be in. And you know, if I can help in any way, shape, or form, I'm glad to. Um they pretty much need somebody, you know, I can guide them back and forth of course things, but they need somebody there who understands their situation that's gonna work with them on a one-on-one basis. And I I don't do those things anymore. I could help you know in different areas, but I can point out what problems are gonna be. So you at least know what to look for ahead of time.
SPEAKER_02
39:18
Well, that is very helpful, just that, because sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. So well, thank you so much. So hopefully you guys have enjoyed this edition of Patty's Place. Make sure you leave us a review, subscribe to our YouTube channel. So I hope you enjoyed your cup of coffee, your cup of tea, or that glass of wine, and please join us for another edition of Patty's Place.