Day Of The Dead Traditions For Healing Grief-Interview with Irene Zamudio

Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_00
0:16

Welcome
to
Patty's
Place,
the
place
where
we're
going
to
talk
about
grief,
dementia,
and
caregiving.
I
started
this
podcast
in
honor
of
my
mom,
Pat,
who
passed
away
from
dementia
almost
three
years
ago.
I'm
your
host,
Lisa.
I'm
here
so
we
can
have
those
difficult
conversations
in
a
soft
place
so
you
know
that
you're
not
alone
as
we
take
this
journey
along.
So
grab
your
cup
of
tea,
your
cup
of
coffee,
or
if
you're
having
that
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine
and
come
join
us.
I'm
really
excited
about
our
conversation
today
because
it
kind
of
encompasses
a
lot
of
different
things,
but
I'm
excited
because
it's
that
time
of
year
for
it.
So
my
guest
today
is
she
is
a
grief
counselor
with
Lightways
Hospice
out
here
in
Joliet,
Illinois.
She's
the
bilingual
grief
counselor.
Her
name
is
Irene
Azumudio.
And
today
we
are
talking
about
the
day
of
the
dead,
or
I
I
won't
say
it's
right.
You
say
it.
There
we
go.
I'm
excited

Where Day Of The Dead Began

SPEAKER_00
1:10

because
I
never
knew
that
much
about
this
holiday
until
I
went
to
the
Lightways
event.
And
now
it's
like
I
just
think
it's
such
a
cool
holiday.
So
can
you
let's
start
with
where
did
this
holiday
originate
from?

SPEAKER_02
1:22

Yeah,
so
it's
one
of
my
favorite
holidays,
and
I'm
so
happy
and
excited
that
we
get
a
chance
to
and
the
space
to
talk
about
it.
But
it's
um,
it
was
a
holiday
that
actually
is
part
of
the
Aztec
Mayan
Mesoamerica
um
roots.
So
it
started
within
that
area
of
Mexico,
and
um
it
had
been
around
for
just
as
long
as
the
that
they
had
been
around.
And
then
it
got
when
the
Spanish
came
over
and
conquered
Mexico,
they
actually
um
brought
their
religion
and
their
beliefs,
which
was
the
Catholic
faith.
Um,
and
so
then
they
they
kind
of
incorporated
their
rituals
and
and
customs
with
that
surrounded
the
the
de
los
muertos
and
kind
of
put
it
together
with
their
with
the
Spanish
um
uh
I'm
sorry,
their
their
religion.
So
that's
why
it's
near
November
2nd,
where
it's
all
Souls
Day.
But
this
actually
had
a
different
day,
different
time,
but
it
was
around
the
fall
that
this
was
celebrated
during
the
indigenous
time.

SPEAKER_00
2:30

Okay.
And
how
long
is
the
holiday?
The
actual
holiday.

SPEAKER_02
2:37

So
the
actual
holiday
that
originated
within
Mexico,
it's
actually
a
week-long
um
festival.
And
it
they
start,
people
start
decorating,
you
know,
around
the
middle
of
October,
if
not
a
little
later,
but
it
actually
starts
on
October
27th.

SPEAKER_00
2:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02
2:55

Yeah,
and
it
goes
until
November
2nd.

SPEAKER_00
2:58

Okay.
And
what's
the
difference
between
the
Day
of
the
Dead
versus
the
Catholic
All
Souls
Day?

SPEAKER_02
3:04

Yeah.
So
the
Day
of
the
Dead,
it
just
incorporates,
you
know,
it's
not
just
sorry,
but
it
incorporates
all
of
you
know
people
and
souls
that
have
passed
on.
So
it's
the
souls
of
pets,
it's
this,
you
know,
our
great
ancestors
that,
you
know,
that
were
before
us.
There's
um
the
forgotten
souls,
or,
you
know,
there's
there's
so
many
souls
that
we
think
about
within
that
week.
And
all
souls
day
um
has
more
of
an
undertone
of
of
religion
and
Catholic
religion.
And
so
the
difference
can
be
sometimes
that
the
day
of
the
dead
or
the
other
Los
Muertos
is
more
of
a
celebration,
more
of
you
know,
of
a
festival,
parades.
And
all
souls
day,
there's
more
of
the
undertone
of
going
to
church,
you
know,
being
a
little
bit
more
um
refined,
praying,
and
we're
wanting
to,
and
a
lot
of
times
it's
all
souls
day
is
prayer
for
souls
that
um
that
may
not
have
made
it
to
heaven
yet
or
maybe
could
be
stuck
in
limbo.
So
that's
where
we
take
that
time
to
kind
of
like
remember
them
and
pray
for
them,
where
the
other
Los
Muertos
is
more
of
like
welcoming
back
the
souls
to
the
land
of
the
living
and
bringing
them
back
home.
So
that's
a
little
bit
of
the
difference
between
the
two.

SPEAKER_00
4:24

I
was
so
excited
when
I
did
the
first
event
for
for
this
holiday,
and
you
were
like,
the
first
night
starts
with
pets.
I
was
like,
oh,
I
was
so
excited
about
it.
I
was
like,
yes,
because
we
all
love
our
pets
with
that
as
well.

SPEAKER_02
4:39

Pets
become
part
of
our
family,
and
you
know,
and
sometimes
too,
you
know,
society
has
changed
and
things
like
that,
and
there's
so
many
reasons,
but
you
know,
sometimes
pets
do
become
like
people's
children.
You
know,
and
they
and
they
take
on
a
different,
different
meaning
and
different
importance.
And
you
know,
yeah,
when
I
found
that
out
to
you,
I
was
like,
oh
my
god,
I
love
that.

SPEAKER_00
5:01

Exactly.
Yes,
yes.
So
so
this
isn't
Halloween,
even
though
it's
right
around
Halloween.
I
mean,
it
and
you
see
stuff
now
where
you
you
see
the
uh
you
see
Halloween
stuff,
but
then
you
also
see
things
that
represent
the
day
of
the
dead,
and
so
they're
not
interchangeable
at
all.

SPEAKER_02
5:21

Right,
right.
They're
they
have
two
different
meanings.
And
again,
you
know,
when
when
colonization
came
around,
religion
was
being
spread
around,
it
it
made
it
easy
for
it
all
to
just
kind
of
encompass
under
each
other.
And
uh
a
lot
of
it
has
to
do
with
it
being
surrounded
the
uh
the
Catholic
holidays.

SPEAKER_00
5:41

Yeah,
yes.
So,
okay,
so
we
start
the
holiday
starts
October
27th.
So
what
do
you
do
for
the
holiday?
Like
I
know
there's
there's
an
ofrenda,
so
what's
an
ofrenda?

SPEAKER_02
5:56

Yeah,
so
an
ofrenda,
which
is
Spanish
for
altar.
Okay,
um,
and
it
has
the
meaning
of
offer.

Day Of The Dead Vs All Souls

SPEAKER_02
6:05

Okay.
So
um
an
offrenda
is
basically
a
place
where
somebody
puts
either
in
their
house
um
next
to
like
a
fireplace
or
things
like
that,
or
even
sometimes
in
Mexico,
houses
have
an
offrenda
room.
So
um
there's
a
room
dedicated
to,
you
know,
uh
like
a
shrine
to
their
people.
And
so
what
people
are
basically
doing
are
they
decorating
um
their
home,
they
are
um
getting
their
baking
and
cooking
their
people's
favorite
food.
Um,
it's
a
time
where
people
actually
come
together
and
they
are
celebrating
the
life
that
they
are
living
and
the
life
that
their
people
have
lived
too.
It's
almost
like
generate,
like,
you
know,
passing
down
the
the
lineage
and
and
the
the
tradition
and
the
the
family
tradition.
So
it's
a
time
to
come
together
and
celebrate.
So
you're
gonna
see
not
only
in
people's
homes,
but
in
in
small
towns
in
Mexico,
or
not
even
small
towns,
but
just
like
big
towns
too.
They
decorate
their
like
um
the
town
square,
their
homes,
the
streets
are
covered.
And
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
the
decorations
are
what
we
are
what
are
marigolds.
And
in
Spanish,
they're
called
simpatchulis.
I
think
I
said
that
right.
Um,
because
it's
a
it's
a
long,
complicated
word.
Um
and
it
it's
just
covered,
and
then
there's
like
the
decorative
paper
that
has
like
different
designs
on
them.
They're
called
papel
picados
or
poked
paper,
and
that's
just
through
the
through
the
streets
and
at
people's
homes
and
stuff,
and
and
you
just
see
everyone
kind
of
coming
together
for
that.

SPEAKER_00
7:49

So
so
we
we
have
an
affrenda,
we
have
an
altar,
and
so
there's
meaning
behind
all
the
things
that
you
put
there,
correct?
Yes.
So
you
always
you
have
a
candle.
What's
the
meaning
of
the
candle
for
that?

SPEAKER_02
8:04

Yeah,
so
specifically
the
candle
is
to
represent
the
element
fire.
So
there's
different
elements
that
are
represented
on
an
offrenda,
and
it's
the
main
four
elements.
And
so
the
candle
represents
the
fire,
and
that
is
to
provide
guidance
and
um
guidance
to
the
altar,
guidance
from
the
land
of
the
dead
to
the
land
of
the
living.
And
it's
it's
like
a
beacon
for
the
souls
to
know,
okay,
this
is
where
I'm
going.
This
is
this
is
where
I'm
heading
towards.
And
um
the
other
elements
that
are
also
on
the
ofrenda
is
uh
we
got
water,
and
that
can
be
represented
by
actual
water
that
people
put
on
the
offrenda.
Um,
it
could
be
represented
too
in
other
liquid
forms
because
you
know,
we're
all
different
and
we're
human
and
we
like
different
things
to
drink.
Right.
So
there's
different
elements
or
there's
different
elements
of
the
of
water
or
liquid
on
the
offenda,
and
that
is
for
the
souls
to
quench
their
thirst
because
it's
a
long
journey.
So
once
they
make
their
journey,
they
have
they
have
something
to
drink
because
of
it.
And
um,
so
there
were
an
earth.
Earth
is
represented
by
the
marigolds.
So
the
marigolds
are
very
important.
Okay,
they're
important
because
not
only
do
they
guide
by
the
by
the
by
the
bright
color
that
they
are,
um,
but
also
because
of
their
smell.
Marigolds
have
a
very
specific
smell
that
the
souls
can
smell.
And
so
it
brings,
so
not
only
is
it
smell,
but
it's
sight
to
to
guide
them
back
to
their
altars
and
to
their
families.
And
so
um
you
can
you
can
see
that
kind
of
being
really
represented
in
in
the
movie
Coco.
They
have
that
big
bridge,
if
you've
seen
it.
Yes,
and
the
bridge
is
made
out
of
marigold
leaves
and
and
petals.
So
it's
beautiful
to
to
just
imagine
just
all
of
that
in
in
real
life.
And
so,
so
that
marigolds
are
represented
by
earth.
So
we
had,
and
then
I
think
wind,
right?
Yeah.
Wind
is
represented
by
the
papel
picado.
So
it's
it's
believed
that
when
the
wind
passes
through
the
paper,
that's
our
person's
soul
coming
to
um
to
be
present
and
to
be
and
to
be
with
them.
And
so
every
time
you
see
it
in
the
wind
or
you
know
it
moving,
it
it's
that
to
represent
that
the
souls
are
there.

SPEAKER_00
10:37

And
that's
that
pretty
colorful
paper
that's
kind
of
like
to
have
different
designs
cut
out
that
you
see,
and
you
can
make
it
yourself
as
well,
too,
right?
Same
thing
with
the
marigolds,
you
could
do
it.

SPEAKER_02
10:46

Yeah,
yeah.
So
there's
different
things
on
on
on
on
like
Google
or
things
like
that.
Like
you
can
print
out
stencils
and
just
cut
out
the
stencil

What An Ofrenda Really Is

SPEAKER_02
10:55

and
put
it
on
tissue
paper,
and
you
can
have
your
own
your
own
puppet
big
gallo
that
way.
Um,
so
yeah,
it's
it's
pretty
easy
to
make.

SPEAKER_00
11:05

Uh,
and
then
there's
also
food,
right?
That
you
put
out
there.

SPEAKER_02
11:09

Mm-hmm.
So
food
is
a
big
thing,
especially
within
within
the
Latino
culture.
You
know,
food
is
something
that
brings
people
together.
It's
supposed,
it
not
only
brings
people
together,
it
can
help
mend
a
broken
heart,
it
can
help
bring
comfort.
You
know,
so
food
is
a
big
part
of
the
culture.
And
so
food
is
definitely
represented
for
the
for
uh
on
the
altar
as
well.
A
lot
of
times
people
cook
the
people's
or
their
person's
favorite
food.
Um,
sometimes
they
cook
the
food
that
they
might
um
uh
uh
had
loved
or
that
they're
known
for.
Like
if
it's
a
family
who's
a
baker
or
something
like
that,
they
they
make
the
they
make
bakery
items
and
stuff.
There
is
a
specific
bread
that
sometimes
is
on
the
on
the
altar.
Um
it's
called
Bande
Muerte
or
Muerto,
and
it's
basically
uh
bread
of
the
dead.
And
and
why
it
why
it's
that
is
because
the
bread,
um,
the
way
that
it's
made,
they
um
put
like
bread
on
top
of
like
texture
bread
to
make
it
look
like
bones.
And
it's
supposed
to
be
bread
that
they
can
take
back
home
with
them
or
back
to
the
land
of
the
dead
with
them.
So
they
can
take
food
with
them
so
that
they're
not
so
that
they
have
um
food
for
their
travels
back.

SPEAKER_00
12:32

Okay.
And
probably
if
somebody
wanted
that,
they
could
probably
get
it
in
any
um
uh
like
Mexican
bakery
or
that,
probably.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah,
basically.
Yeah,
and
then
then
the
skulls,
because
you
see
that
all
the
time,
but
I
don't
think
what
do
they
those
represent?
A
lot
of
people
don't
even
know
what
those
mean.

SPEAKER_02
12:51

Yeah,
so
the
skulls
um
or
calaveras,
they
um
they
represent
how
the
lit
how
the
living
and
the
dead
are
connected,
because
we're
all
we
all
are
a
skeleton,
right?
And
then
um,
and
so
that's
how
we're
connected,
and
that
is
to
show
that
there's
life
and
death
and
that
we
can
coexist
and
we
can
and
we
can
celebrate
that.
And
so
it's
not
to
meant
to
be
scary,
although
sometimes
it
could
be
scary.
It's
not
meant
to
be,
and
that's
why
they're
colorful
too,
to
show
that
it
it's
it's
a
skull,
and
we
can
we
are
not
it's
nothing
to
be
afraid
of.
And
so
the
colors
can
sometimes
even
mean
different
things,
you
know,
purple
um
can
be
like
royalty
or
they
were
a
hierarchy
within
the
family,
like
it
could
be
a
great-great-grandparent.
So
their
skull
might
be
colored
purple.
Red
couldn't
could
mean,
you
know,
they
were
um
they
were
married,
you
know,
the
couple
that
it
could
have
been
a
grandma
and
a
grandpa
that
passed
away,
and
so
their
skull
might
be
might
be
red
or
something.
And
um,
sometimes
the
skulls
have
their
person
that's
died,
their
name
on
it,
too.
So
it's
another
representation.
And
two,
in
the
altar,
I
forgot
the
most
important
thing.
There's
pictures.
There's
pictures
of
their
person,
and
so
that's
where
you
get
to
place
the
pictures
um
of
who's
passed
on.
Sometimes
it
can
go
all
the
way
to
the
great,
great,
great
grandparents,
you
know,
if
if
that's
how
long
the
lineage
has
been.
So
yeah,
that's
that's
really
cool
about
what
we,
you
know,
how
we
incorporate
our
people
and
things.

SPEAKER_00
14:30

And
so
does
each
day,
since
it's
essentially
a
week,
does
each
day
represent
a
different
family?
Like
we
just
said,
the
pets
start
start
the
week
off.
Is
there
a
certain
way
it
goes?

SPEAKER_02
14:42

Yeah,
so
um
each
day
represents
a
certain
soul
that
we
focus
on
for
that
day,
right?
So
like
the
the
27th
was
the
um
our
pets,
right?
We
remember
pets.
The
28th
is
remembered
for
uh
souls
that
had
suddenly
died
or
through
an
or
had
died
through
an
accident,
okay,
right?
The
29th
is
for
souls
that
may
have
possibly
drowned,
you
know,
so
they
they
were
drowning
or
um
thing
or
something
with
water.
Um
the
30th
has
to
do
with
remembering
souls
that
maybe
don't
have
any
more
family
living
and
um
can't
continue
the
the
tradition
for
them.
So
like
in
the
movie
Coco,
they
talk
about
the
for
the
forgotten
souls.

SPEAKER_01
15:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_02
15:33

Um
it
was
a
little
dramatized
for
just
for
the
sake
of
you
know
movies.

SPEAKER_01
15:40

Right,
right.

SPEAKER_02
15:41

Yeah,
you
know,
it's
okay.
Yeah,
but
no,
in
the
in
the
tradition
is
we
do
remember
forgotten
souls.
So
that
is
on
a
specific
day.
So
that
was
the
30th,
and
then
the
31st
is
remembering
ancestors,
our
great
grandparents,
great
great-grandparents,
and
then
the
first,
November
1st,
is
where
we
remember
children,
so
souls
that
may
have
died
as
children
or
as
infants,
and
then
November
2nd
is
where
we
would
encompass
everyone,
and
that's
when
a
lot
of
times
that's
the
big
celebration.

SPEAKER_00
16:11

Oh,
okay.
Yeah,
okay.
And
so
you
can
put
out,
I
mean,
like
you
said,
you
can
put
out
your
a
friend
out
with
everything.
Do
you
have
to
like
wait
each
day
before
you
put
the
pictures
and
things
like
that
out?
Or
you
can
put
everything
out
and
just
do
you
say
prayers
then
during
that
time,
or
you
can.

SPEAKER_02
16:30

Each
family
does
it
differently,
just
some
tradition,
you
know,
just
regular
traditions
like
Christmas
or
Hanukkah,
or
you
know,
um,
you
know,
the
way
that
we
observe
the

Candles Water Marigolds And Wind

SPEAKER_02
16:40

holidays
is
gonna
be
different
in
each
family,
right?
And
so
that's
the
same
thing
with
the
los
muertos.
You
know,
there's
it
some
people
put
out
an
ofrenda
all
on
the
first
day,
right?
Okay.
And
there's
other
people
that
that
stick
to
the
days,
you
know,
very,
very
specifically.
Um,
but
yeah,
each
day,
um,
I
know
that
sometimes
on
certain
ofrendas,
there's
certain
diff
there's
different
candles.
There's
candelabras
on
the
ofrenda
sometimes,
and
that's
where
sometimes
people
put
like
specific
candles
for
the
specific
days
and
and
they're
lit
like
that.
Um,
so
it
it
really
does
depend
on
the
on
how
people
want
to
celebrate
it.

SPEAKER_00
17:20

And
then
um
what
was
I
gonna
say?
I
was
gonna
say,
so
they
can
they
can
pretty
much
do
whatever
they
can
decorate
it
their
ofrenda
any
way
they
want,
but
they
should
always
incorporate
those
certain
things,
the
elements
with
and
then
the
pictures
in
that,
right?

SPEAKER_02
17:37

Yeah,
that's
what
that's
what
makes
it
part
of
like
it
being
for
the
de
los
muertos,
right?
That
these
are
the
specific
items
on
the
ofrenda.
Um,
sometimes
people
keep
their
ofrendas
up
all
year
long.
Okay.
And
um,
so
it
it
starts,
it's
just
like
how
some
people
keep
up
Christmas
trees
all
year
long.

SPEAKER_00
17:54

Right,
yeah,
why
not,
right?

SPEAKER_02
17:56

Yeah,
it's
the
same
thing
for
the
ofrendas,
and
um
and
yeah,
it's
it's
all
incorporating
just
the
the
tradition
of
where
it
came
from
and
where
it
started.

SPEAKER_00
18:07

So
how
does
this
holiday
honor
grief?

SPEAKER_02
18:12

Yeah,
right.
Um,
I
think
that
this
holiday
is
a
holiday
that
gives
permission
to
celebrate
and
to
honor
and
to
remember,
um,
to
remember
our
loved
ones
in
in
a
way
that
doesn't
have
to
feel
heavy.
Because
I
think
a
lot
of
times
within
grief
we
we
have
those
heavy
feelings,
we
have
that
heaviness,
right?
And
then
two,
there's
sometimes
this
misconception
that
grief
has
to
be
heavy.
And
the
the
heavier
we
feel
with
sadness
or
with
guilt
or
with
somberness,
that
um
that
that
means
we
love
our
person
even
more,
right?
Right.
But
that's
a
misconception
because
love
is
part
of
remembering
and
honoring
the
remembering
the
good
times,
the
funny
things,
you
know.
Sometimes
our
people
have
said
some
funny
things
and
it
just
pops
in
and
we
just
are
laughing,
right?
And
sometimes
we
feel
that
guilt,
there's
that
misconception
that
I'm
I'm
laughing.
Why
should
I
be
laughing?
I'm
I'm
supposed
to
be
sad.
But
the
thing
about
the
other
Los
Muertos
is
that
it
honors
the
other
part
of
grief,
the
part
that
we
can
remember
and
celebrate
our
person,
celebrate
the
life
that
they
lived.
Um,
remember
what
the
what
they
taught
us,
right?
And
remembering
how
how
did
they
continue
the
the
lineage,
you
know,
within
the
family.
So
I
think
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
celebration.
It's
a
it
it
honors
grief
by
celebrating
their
life,
honoring
their
life,
and
not
only
that,
but
honoring
our
life
and
connection
with
them
too.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00
19:56

Yeah.
And
then
it
can
I
I
feel
like
it's
a
way
to
bring
healing.
Do
you
think
that
this
particular
holiday?

SPEAKER_02
20:04

I
think
so.
I
think
it
definitely
brings
healing
in
the
sense
that
we
can
it
it
continues
connection,
right?
And
continues
tradition.
It
um
it
allows
us
to
to
be
silly
and
remember
um
our
people,
eat
their
favorite
food,
right,
and
be
around
family.
And
we
and
sometimes
we
need
that
in
order
for
for
uh
growth,
right,
within
within
our
grief
and
how
we
process
grief.
It
we
need
sometimes
connection
and
family
connection.

SPEAKER_00
20:40

And
then
like
we
were
saying,
it's
not
a
somber
holiday
at
all,
it's
a
celebratory
holiday
for
people.
And
you're
gonna
be
able
to
do
that.

SPEAKER_02
20:48

Yeah,
and
some
people
are
gonna
cry,
you
know.
Some
people
will
cry,
yeah,
that's
gonna
happen,
but
but
there
is
more
of
the
undertone
of
let's
let's
party,
let's
have
a
festival,
let's
let's
enjoy,
let's
enjoy
life
and
and
the
life
we're
living
and
the
life
that
was
lived.

SPEAKER_00
21:04

I
saw
some
pictures
uh
in
some
videos
of
the
celebrations
in
Mexico,
and
I
was
like,
oh,
I
still
want
to
go
during
that
week.
It's
like
really
something.
And
some
of
them
are
even
in
the
cemeteries,
is
that
correct?

SPEAKER_02
21:18

Yeah.
Oh,
it
I
mean,
this
isn't
just
in
someone's
home.
It's
in
it,
it
really
does
sometimes
center
around
the
the
cemeteries
and
the
grave
sites
um
because
that's
where
their
people
are,
right?
That's
where
they
were
laid
to
rest
a
majority
of
the
time.
And
um
people
gather.
It's
gathering
in
the
cemetery,
gathering
in
the
in
the
town
square,
at
home,
in
the
in
the
neighborhoods.
Yeah,
it's
it
extends
far
behind
the
house.

SPEAKER_00
21:49

With
it.
Is
it
celebrated
different
in
different
countries?

SPEAKER_02
21:54

Yeah,
uh,
you
know,
uh
that
was
really
interesting
for
me
because
I
did
have
to
do
some
research.
You
know,
um,
because
sometimes
you
think,
oh,
it's
only
in
a
certain
spot
or
certain
Latino
um
countries,
and
then
finding
out
that
not
every
country
in
South
America
celebrates
it.

SPEAKER_00
22:12

Oh,
okay.

SPEAKER_02
22:13

Only
a
few.
All
of
Mexico
celebrates
it.
The
United
States
has
celebrated.
But
what
I
thought
was
really
interesting
was
that
Italy
celebrates
it.
Oh.
And
um,
yeah,
Italy
and
um
uh
the
Philippines.
And
so,
and
then
that
I
put
kind
of
two
and
two
together,
those
two
countries
have
a
really
big
Catholic
problem
too.
So
I'm
like,
oh,
well,
that
makes
sense,
right?
Right.
And
so
Italy
and
the
Philippines
are
they
don't
do
it
for
a
whole
week
from
what
I
was
looking
up,
but
it
was
um
it
but
it
is
on
November
2nd
that
they
do
observe
it
and
celebrate
it.
And
what
was
kind
of
interesting
was
that
they
also
go
to
the
cemeteries
and
the
graves
to
um
to
be
with
their
loved
ones.
And
food
is
a
big
thing.
They
they
bring
their
food
and
drinks
and
things.
Um,
so
they
they
find
a
way
to
honor
and
remember
their
loved
ones
too.

SPEAKER_00
23:12

Yeah,
I
I
could
see
that.
Yes,
Italians,
we
are
very
much
about
food
as
well.
With
that,
with
that
too.
And
as
we
were
saying,
like
with
grief,
you're
able
to
talk
about
your
loved
one
and
like
you
say,
give
yourself
permission
to
to
really
celebrate
them
and
even
maybe
your
great
grandparents,
even
if
you
never
knew
them,
right?
You
know,
you
can
really
like
do
and
and
all
the
pictures
and
things
like
that,
and
think
about
all
those
stories
with
it,
with
it,
and
you
don't
always
necessarily
have
to
feel
sad
about
it
with
that.

SPEAKER_02
23:49

Yeah,
it
it's
a
time
for
for
families
to
come
together,
it's
a
time
for
within

Skulls Photos Food And Meaning

SPEAKER_02
23:55

those
gatherings
to
learn
about
where
you
come
from,
where
your
family
comes
from,
why
certain
maybe
there
was
something
that
the
family
does
now
because
the
great
grandparents
established
it.
And
so
knowing
that
this
is
the
way
that
we
do
certain
things
in
the
family,
it's
because
of
that.
And
so
now
you
know
why
that
happens,
right?
Yeah,
so
I
I
think
it's
a
really
great,
great
holiday
to
to
celebrate
and
just
understand
family
in
general.

SPEAKER_00
24:32

And
it
and
it
also,
like
you
said,
gives
yourself
permission,
because
it
is
about
it
really
is
about
grief,
but
it's
about
remembering
them
and
not
just
how
they
died,
but
how
they
lived
as
well
for
that.
And
and
what
if
somebody
is
doesn't
believe
in
spirits
or
anything
like
that?
Can
they
do
you
think
they
could
still
find
healing
with
this
holiday?

SPEAKER_02
24:55

I
think
so.
I
think
so.
Um
I
think
how
someone
can
find
some
healing
in
in
this
holiday,
whether
they
believe
in
spirits
or
souls,
I
think
being
just
around
people
that
are
in
a
certain
state,
which
is,
you
know,
the
the
celebration,
the
the
coming
together,
the
festivals,
the
parades.
Um,
it's
really
hard
not
to
get
caught
up
in
that
type
of
energy.
And
it
could
happen,
you
know,
someone
just
might
not
be
too
caught
up
in
the
energy,
but
I
think
being
around
it
and
maybe
observing
it
and
just
how
someone
is
is
absorbing
it
just
can
can
be
helpful
and
in
their
way.

SPEAKER_00
25:42

Well,
and
it
also
kind
of
represents
the
fact
that
our
loved
ones
are
always
with
us,
not
just
for
that
week,
but
you
know,
whether
you
see,
you
know,
when
you
like
I
always
tell
the
story
that
my
mom
loved
peeps,
you
know,
the
little
and
so
anytime
I
see
peeps,
I
think
of
her,
you
know.
And
so
like
I
and
as
a
matter
of
fact,
they
have
Day
of
the
Dead
peeps
too
now
with
the
Halloween
peeps,
you
know.
So
things
like
that
to,
or
I
or
she
loved
Barry
Manilow.
So
whenever
I
hear
a
Barry
Manilow
song
pop
up
out
of
the
blue,
like
I
okay,
she's
saying
hi
to
me,
you
know,
and
it
kind
of
helps
people
because
I
know
sometimes
people
have
a
hard
time
believing
and
that
there's
still
still
with
them
with
it.

SPEAKER_02
26:23

Yeah,
it
it
is
a
really
hard
and
maybe
abstract
concept
sometimes
to
to
um
put
yourself
in
that
situation
or
put
your
mind
in
the
in
the
fact
that
they're
a
spirit
or
a
soul
or
that
they
have
this
ability

Each Day Honors Different Souls

SPEAKER_02
26:45

to
um
do
some
signs
or
I
like
to
call
them
little
winks.
They
they
give
us
winks
that
they're
you
know
still
around.
It's
hard
to
to
kind
of
wrap
your
mind
around
that
a
little
bit,
especially
if
no
one's
ever
really
lived
it
growing
up,
or
um
just
haven't
hasn't
been
around
that.
Um
and
I
think
that
it's
that
that's
okay
too.
You
know,
it's
I
think
everyone
is
entitled
to
believe
what
they
want.
And
um,
and
sometimes
too,
you
know,
all
holidays
are
not
for
everybody
either.

SPEAKER_00
27:20

Right.
You
know,
and
so
so
it's
it's
okay.
Yeah,
you
know,
and
I
I
like
I
said
I
wanted
to
talk
about
it
because
I
did
not
understand
everything
that
went
with
it
until
and
lightweight
presents
a
wonderful
event
every
year
uh
for
about
this
holiday.
And
I
learned
so
much,
and
I
I
felt
a
lot
of
healing
and
peace
with
it.
Like,
oh
yeah,
especially
when
I
heard
about
the,
you
know,
your
pets
that
was
like,
oh,
I'm
kicking
this
off
with
my
pets
and
I
have
pictures
there,
and
then
you
you
have
pictures
and
you're
like,
oh,
they
love
this
and
they
love
that,
and
it
just
felt
like,
oh,
you
know,
it's
that
time
where
you
really
do
remember
them
and
welcome
them,
not
just
like,
you
know,
say
at
Christmas
and
you
feel
sad
that
they're
not
there.
You
know,
so
it's
a
holiday
where
it
is
about
saying
it,
yeah,
I
miss
you,
and
yeah,
I
want
you
here,
but
you
know,
here
I
got
all
your
favorite
things,
you
know,
and
and
and
celebrate
what
their
life
was.
Like
you
said,
talk
about
all
the
the
funny
stories
that
they
that
they
did
with
it
on
those
types
of
things
for
it.
And
I
was
like,
I
had
no
idea
like
the
history
and
everything
that
went
into
because
it's
like
a
really
cool
holiday,
I
think.

SPEAKER_02
28:30

Yeah,
and
and
to
kind
of
go
back
to
what
you
had
asked
about,
like
it's
not
uh
or
that
some
people
can
confuse
it
with
Halloween.
And
the
thing
about
Halloween
is
that
traditionally
where
that
came
from
is
a
a
Celtic
um
yeah,
uh
roots,
right?
So
we
if
for
Halloween,
we
dress
up
with,
and
back
in
the
day,
the
reason
why
it
looks
so
scary
in
some
of
the
scary
costumes
was
because
traditionally
what
it
is
is
to
to
ward
off
like
not
so
good,
maybe
evil
spirits,
right,
right
and
confuse
them,
right?
Right.
And
and
that
and
day
of
the
day
of
the
dead
is
the
opposite.
You
know,
we're
we're
wanting
to
welcome
the
the
spirits
and
the
souls
and
uh
of
our
loved
ones,
you
know,
to
come
back.
And
so
um
that
that's
where
I
think
sometimes
it
can
be
a
little
bit
misconception
because
of
just
that
they're
so
close
together.

SPEAKER_01
29:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02
29:30

But
again,
it's
again,
it's
because
of
the
Catholic
religion
that
it
just
it,
you
know,
took
over
and
decided
to
make
it
easy
for
everyone.

SPEAKER_00
29:38

Yes,
it
was
we
have
the
Irish
to
think
for
Halloween.
It
was
Salmon.
Salmon
was
the
Celtic
fest
for
it.
So

How Celebration Supports Grief Healing

SPEAKER_00
29:45

so
look,
see,
I
got
both
my
I
I'm
Irish
and
Italian,
so
I
have
both,
you
know.
I
I
got
it
both
there
uh
with
it.
And
actually
it
wasn't
Jack
Landers,
it
was
turnips
that
they
got
up
first.
But
so
uh
There
you
go.
Yes,
see
with
that.
But
I
I
think
it
still
blends
well,
uh,
because
I
could
see
I
uh
I'm
surprised
Ireland
doesn't
do
it.
It
was
probably
because
of
Halloween
and
that,
but
I
I
could
see
where
it
would
fit
right
in,
you
know.

SPEAKER_02
30:10

Yeah,
well
actually
Ireland
does
does
do
um
the
Day
of
the
Dead.
They
do
it
on
or
um
celebrates
the
Day
of
the
Dead.
Now
what
the
name
is
that
they
that
they
call
it,
but
it
is
observed
on
November
2nd.

SPEAKER_00
30:23

Okay,
that
makes
sense
because
of
you
know
the
Catholic
faith
there
and
stuff
like
that.
And
you
don't
have
to
be
Catholic
to
celebrate
the
holiday
either.

SPEAKER_02
30:31

No,
not
at
all.
If
anything,
that's
what
I
say
when
uh
when
I
when
I
do
the
the
um
the
event
here
at
Lightways.
Yeah,
you
don't
have
to
be
Latino
to
celebrate,
you
don't
have
to
believe
in
anything.
If
this
resonates
with
you,
how
we
celebrate
it,
adapt
it.
You
know,
take
it
on.

SPEAKER_00
30:49

Exactly.
Yeah,
but
it's
just
a
way
for
you
to
be
able
to
acknowledge
your
grief
and
be
able
to,
like
you
said,
celebrate
it
and
not
feel
so
because
it's
not
a
somber
holiday
at
all,
you
know,
and
it's
a
way
kind
of
hopefully
maybe
bring
you
some
healing
and
feel
close
to
your
loved
ones,
you
know,
especially
if
maybe
you're
not
so
sure
about
it,
but
just
to
be
able
to,
you
know,
have
their
things
around
as
well
and
make
it,
you
know,
and
you
get
to
be
creative
because
you
can
put
make
your
friend
up
any
way
you
want,
really.
With
it.

SPEAKER_02
31:21

Yeah,
and
that's
that's
what
we
like
to
do
within
the
within
the
program
that
we
do
for
lightweight,
the
way
that
we
designed
it.
So
back
in
2019,
um,
we
went
to
the
National
Mexican
Museum
in
in
Pilson.
It's
a
it's
a
free
museum,
um,
so
anyone
can
go.
And
the
every
year
around
this
time,
they
do
something
for
the
de
los
muertos.
So
we
went
uh
the
grief
support
team
went
as
a
field
trip
to
to
check
it
out
and
and
learn
about
it
more.
And
when
we
saw
and
heard
the
different
things
uh
of
that
goes
on
in
the
ofenda
or
how
to
even
create
an
ofrenda,
we
just
kind
of
brainstormed
together
like,
okay,
how
can
we
bring
this
to
our
grieving
population
back
in
Joliet?
And
um,
and
not
even
just
in
Joliet,
because
when
COVID
hit,
we
did
do
the
program
still
uh
virtual.
So
um
we
figured,
you
know,
let's
provide
the
tools,
let's
provide
the
things,
and
let's
let's
you
know
celebrate
and
maybe
provide
a
new
way
to
connect
with
people
with
our
people
that
have
died,
and
how
can
we
still
honor
and
remember
them
in
that
way
too?

SPEAKER_00
32:38

Right.
And
even
if
somebody
just
starts
out
and
they
just
have
their
picture
and
a
candle,
that's
you
know,
however
they
want
to
make
their
altar
and
do
it,
and
just
know
that
there's
another
way
that
you
can
maybe
find
some
healing
with
your
grief.
You
know,
it's
a
holiday
that
says
we're
bringing
our
love,
we're
welcoming
our
loved
ones
back.
Yes.
For
that.
Uh
anything
else
that
you
think
people
should
know
about
this
holiday
or
the
ofrenda
or
anything
like
that?

SPEAKER_02
33:08

Um
I
really
just
think
it's
a
it's
um
it's
it's
a
pretty
holiday.
I
I
it's
very
pretty
and
beautiful
and
and
welcoming.
And
and
that
even
though
if
people
have
tears
or
f
still
have
sadness,
that
it's
that
it's
still
okay.
That
it's
still
okay
to
be
sad
in
a
moment
where
everyone
is
celebrating
because
it's
still
part
of
grief.
You
know,
it
has
a
it's
a
it's
a
big
umbrella.

SPEAKER_00
33:39

Yes,
yes,
it
is.
It
really
is,
yeah.
And
it's
yeah,
it's
the
way
you
can,
like
you
said,
have
all
the
emotions
and
know
that
that's
also
time
that
you
can
take
for
yourself,
you
know,
if
you
want
recognize
it
for
that.
And
another
good
way
too,
if
you're
really
not
sure,
watch
the
movie
Coco,
because
that's
a
really
good,
it's
a
really
good
movie.
It
really,
they
really
explain
it
well,
I
think.

SPEAKER_02
34:03

Yeah,
and
and
if
if
anyone
is
ever
interested
too,
they
could
take
a
deep
dive
and
how
the
the
illustrators

Adapting The Tradition And Closing

SPEAKER_02
34:11

were
very
conscious
of
how
to
connect
the
tradition
within
the
within
the
culture
of,
you
know,
like
it
when
you
go
into
the
land
of
the
dead
in
the
movie,
um
the
way
that
the
houses
are,
I
thought
this
was
interesting.
The
way
that
the
houses
and
everything
are
connected
are
actually
supposed
to
look
like
tree
roots
to
signify
the
roots
of
a
family
and
generation
and
tradition.
So
I
thought
that
was
really
cool.
So
they
were
really
meticulous
about
it.

SPEAKER_00
34:42

Yeah.
And
it
kind
of
gives
you,
you
know,
learn
more
about
it
for
it
as
well.
Yeah.
For
that.
Well,
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
today.
So
thank
you.
I
I
am
very
excited.
Like
I
said,
I
I
I
get
into
the
holiday
now
that
I
never
knew
anything
about
before.
So
now
I
know.

SPEAKER_02
35:01

So
I
love
that.
I
love
that
you
were
able
to
come
to
our
to
our
event
and
then
you've
adapted
it
to
to
to
you
and
your
family
and
have
and
are
still
continuing
it.
I'd
love
to
hear
that.

SPEAKER_00
35:14

Yeah,
because
I,
you
know,
it's
like,
oh,
if
I
can
make,
you
know,
I'm
thinking,
oh,
what
can
I
make?
You
know,
because
my
mom
was
a
really
good
baker
and
my
grandma
and
stuff
then,
you
can
like
start
putting,
you
know,
because
I
usually
have
pictures
around
anyway,
and
things
that
they're
that
they
had
loved
and
stuff
like
that
around
my
house.
But
it's
kind
of
a
nice
way
to,
you
know,
make
your
little
altar
and
kind
of,
you
know,
just
set
that
time
aside
as
well
for
it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02
35:41

I
think
it's
important
to
always
set
some
time
aside,
right?
But
it
but
sometimes
it
can
be
easier
to
set
the
time
aside
when
it's
a
holiday.

SPEAKER_00
35:49

True.
Very
true.
Yes,
yes,
I
can
be
for
it.
Well,
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
today.
And
hopefully
everyone
everybody
has
learned
a
little
bit
more
about
the
day
of
the
dead.
Maybe
they'll
celebrate
it
themselves
as
well.
So
so
hopefully
you
have
found
this
uh
episode
enlightening
and
you
learned
some
new
things
for
the
for
another
fall
activity.
It's
not
just
about
Halloween
for
that.
So
hopefully
you
enjoyed
your
cup
of
coffee
or
cup
of
tea,
or
that
was
a
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine,
and
you
will
join
us
for
another
edition
of
Patty's
Place.