Congrats, You’re The Parent Now-Interview with Kim & Alex

Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_02
0:10

Welcome
to
Patty's
Place,
a
place
where
we're
gonna
talk
about
grief,
dementia,
and
caregiving.
I
started
this
podcast
in
honor
of
my
mom,
Pat,
who
passed
away
almost
three
years
ago
from
dementia.
I'm
your
host,
Lisa,
as
we
try
to
navigate
these
difficult
waters
and
have
these
conversations.
And
just
so
you
know
that
you're
not
alone
in
all
of
this.
So
grab
your
cup
of
tea,
your
cup
of
coffee,
or
if
you're
having
that
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine,
and
come
join
us
today.
So
today
I'm
excited.
We
have
two
guests
here
today.
We
have
Kim
Branch
Lucid
and
Alexander
Nuri.
They
are
co-authors
of
Survival
Guide
to
Caring
for
Parents,
Aging
Parents.
Between
them,
they
bring
over
50
years
of
combined
health
care
experience,
plus
also
personal
experience
of
navigating
for
their
parents
and
in-laws.
So
thank
you
for
joining
us
today
on
Patty's
Place.
Thank
you
so
much.
So
so
much
to
talk
about
here.
So

When It’s Time To Step In

SPEAKER_02
1:03

let's
start
with
the
first
big
question.
How
do
you
know
when
it's
time
to
step
in
and
start
taking
care
of
your
parents?

SPEAKER_03
1:11

I'll
I'll
jump
in.
Um
I
think
it's
there
are
little
signs
along
the
way
that
add
up.
In
in
the
case
of
my
mother,
I
mean,
very
specifically,
it
was
her
more
and
more
asking
for
me
to
help
with
things.
I
I
can't
reach
this,
I
can't
reach
anything
on
the
top
shelf.
Or
um,
could
could
you
help
me
do
this?
I
can't
open
the
jar.
I
mean,
it
started
with
me
buying
little
gadgets,
the
robo
jar
opener
and
things.
Um
but
it's
it's
the
little
signs,
or
in
the
case
of
dementia,
which
I
I'm
fortunate
my
mother
did
not
have
dementia,
but
there's
still
that
repeating,
repeating,
repeating
the
same
story
over
and
over
again,
asking
the
same
question
over
and
over
again,
which
is
a
sign
that
something's
not
right.
So,
those
to
me,
it's
the
the
the
increased
asks
for
assistance,
which
I'm
grateful
my
mother
did
ask,
uh,
and
then
just
the
cognitive
awareness.
Alex.

SPEAKER_00
2:20

Yeah,
I
think
Kim
said
it
well.
Um
my
mom
uh
has
Alzheimer's,
and
uh
some
of
the
signs,
aside
from
just
the
forgetfulness,
the
little
signs
that
Kim
alludes
to
were
just
things
like,
I'm
tired
of
cooking.
I
don't
think
I
can
cook
for
myself,
I
need
some
help.
And
so
we
had
to
hire
a
caregiver
to
come
in
and
cook
for
a
while.
Um,
she
was
driving
and
she
had
two
car
accidents.
Thank
God
nobody
got
killed,
but
you
know,
ended
up
having
to
take
away
our
car
because
her
reaction
time
started
to
slow
down.
And
um,
when
we
had
a
conversation
that
I
would
say
something,
she
would
forget
what
I
said
five
minutes
later.
So
I
started
to
see
little
signs
like
that
and
realized
that
something's
going
on
and
started
to
get
her
into
more
um
in-depth
care.

SPEAKER_02
3:01

You're
saying
that
your
mom
didn't
want
to
cook
anymore.
It
made
me
think
of
my
mom
because
she'd
be
like,
I'm
tired,
I've
cooked
for
50
years,
I'm
done
already.
She'd
be
like,
and
and
my
case
of
my
mom
too,
she
was
a
wonderful
cook,
excellent
cook.
And
she
couldn't
do
it
anymore.
Like
it
things
were
not
turning
out
and
stuff
was
so
not
like

The Care Load Grows Fast

SPEAKER_02
3:19

her.
Uh
so
what
do
you
think
is
the
biggest
surprise
people
run
into
when
they
suddenly
become
a
caregiver?

SPEAKER_03
3:29

Alex?
Okay,
okay,
yeah.

SPEAKER_00
3:32

I
think
the
biggest
surprise,
and
I
think
I
I
say
this
to
a
lot
of
my
friends
who
are
caring
for
parents,
is
um
as
uh
as
they
get
older,
uh
the
amount
of
time
and
energy
and
commitment
to
caring
for
them
grows
exponentially.
Um
so
when
you
first
um
you
know
start,
it's
like,
okay,
yeah,
sure,
I'll
take
you
to
a
doctor
appointment,
or
sure,
um,
you
know,
you
need
some
help,
you
know,
you
know,
go
into
the
laundry,
or
or
you
you
need
some
help,
uh,
maybe
you
don't
feel
like
eating
out
or
eating,
and
I'll
order
some
food
for
you,
or
I'll
pick
up
your
medications.
And
then
it
just
kind
of
goes
on
and
on
and
on
and
becomes
more
and
more
of
a
responsibility
and
and
um
you
know
takes
more
and
more
uh
time
away
from
your
life.

SPEAKER_03
4:10

That's
a
good
answer.
I
I
think
uh
similarly,
you
know,
at
the
beginning
you
think
of
you
doing
little
errands,
because
I
was
already
going
grocery
shopping
for
my
mother
or
taking
her
shopping,
taking
her
to
doctor's
appointments.
I
was
already
doing
that.
It's
um
when
you
start
really
stepping
in,
you
realize
there's
so
much
more
than
you
thought
it
was.
You
thought
it
was,
you
know,
take
her
to
the
doctor,
and
then
you
realize
it
was
well
look
at
the
whole
house,
make
sure
that
the
she
can't
chip
on
the
carpet,
make
sure
that
she
can
reach
her
dishes,
make
sure
her
mobility
is
good
enough
to
stand
so
she
can
cook.
Because
I
went
through
the
same
thing
with
my
mother
of
just
I
can't
cook
anymore.
And
it
wasn't
that
she
didn't
want
to
cook,
it's
that
she
could
not
stand
without
holding
on
to
something
to
support
her.
She
couldn't
be
someplace
with
two
hands
free
to
cook
for
herself.
So
you
just
realize
it
just
it
it
balloons
into
a
lot.
I
think
the
biggest
surprise
um,
and
we
we
discussed
this
briefly
in
our
book,
I
think,
is
that
you
think
you
can
work
your
full-time
job
and
do
this
on
the
side.
And
then
when
you
realize
it
is
a
full-time
job
by
itself,
then
as
I
always
say,
and
I
know
this
wasn't
your
question,
but
then
it's
time
to
get
extra
help
because
it
it
can't
be
a
full-time
job
for
it
to
keep
your
sanity,
it
can't
be
a
full-time
job.
So
um,
I
think
that's
the
biggest
surprise
is
you
realize,
oh
my
gosh,
it
is
so
much
more
than
I
thought
it
was
gonna
be.
I
thought
put
her
in
assisted
living
and
I'm
done.
You
know,
but
it's
not
a
good
thing.

SPEAKER_02
5:56

Yeah,
and
you're
not,
not
at
all.
That's
what
a
lot
of
people
think.
Oh,
you
you
drop
them
off
and
you
and
you're
not
taking
no,
you're
you're
doing
just
as
much
work
because
you're
still
scheduling
doctor's
appointments
or
making
sure
medication,
you're
going
in
to
check
on
them,
making
sure
the
room
is
clean,
how
are
they
doing?
Yeah,
it's
still
just
as
much
work
for
that.

SPEAKER_01
6:17

Exactly.

The Maze Of Care And Coverage

SPEAKER_02
6:18

Um,
you
call
it
a
maze
in
your
book.
What
do
you
mean
by
that?

SPEAKER_03
6:24

Um
it
started
off
very
much
as
the
maze
of
navigating
the
US
healthcare
system.
Oh,
and
that
is
a
I
realize
you
know
things
are
different
in
countries
that
have
more
friendly
healthcare
systems.
I
don't
want
to
put
any
labels
on
it.
Right.
But
it's
figuring
out
well,
what
does
Medicare
cover
and
and
what's
the
difference
between
part
A
and
Part
B
and
Medicare
Advantage
and
all
the,
you
know,
all
of
that.
And
then
there's
this
whole
legal
side.
Well,
okay,
if
I
have
a
power
of
attorney,
what
is
that
control?
What's
the
difference
between
that
and
a
healthcare
power
of
attorney?
And
and
then,
oh,
if
I
want
to
just
get
my
parent
transported
and
I
want
to
go
with
them
to
an
appointment,
but
they're
in
a
wheelchair
and
I
need
help,
where
do
I
go
for
that?
And
what's
covered?
What
are
available
services
in
my
community
that
I
can
take
advantage
of?
And
oh,
does
my
mother
qualify
for
Medicaid,
or
does
she
make
too
much
money,
or
or
is
are
the
rules
not
what
I
thought
they
were?
So,
in
the
process
of
writing
the
book,
and
we
interviewed
a
lot
of
people,
and
in
the
course
of
my
experience
with
my
mother,
I
learned
a
lot
about
Medicaid,
and
it's
completely
different
in
whatever
state
person
is
living.
So
in
California,
where
my
mother
was,
Medicaid
has
uh
expansion
that
allows
people
with
greater
than
the
minimum
income
level
to
still
be
qualified
if
they
have
no
assets
and
just
navigating
all
of
that.
So
we
really
felt
it's
it's
all
a
maze.
It's
navigating
healthcare
and
the
payment
and
the
legal
documents,
and
then
just
the
maze
of
how
do
I
deal
with
my
parents'
mental
state,
and
you
know,
if
it's
dementia
or
Alzheimer's,
then
it's
then
it's
that
on
top
of
it.
So
kind
of
a
maze.

SPEAKER_00
8:26

Yeah,
and
Kim
is
right.
We
started
with
you
know
navigating
the
US
healthcare
system
and
it
quickly
expanded
to
all
the
other
dimensions
of
navigation,
like
finding
an
assisted
living,
putting
them
in
a
skilled
nursing
facility,
finding
the
right
doctor,
getting
geriatric
care.
I
mean,
it
was
A
to
Z.
How
do
you
go
about
navigating
and
finding
the
right
choices
and
and
and
make
the
right
uh
decisions
and
have
the
uh,
if
you
will,
the
authority
to
make
some
of
those
decisions
because
of
patient
privacy
issues.
So
there's
a
lot
to
it,
this
uh
more
than
just
the
US
healthcare
system.

SPEAKER_02
8:57

It
is,
and
it's
it
it
is
so
overwhelming,
you
know,
it
no
matter
what
the
illness
is,
it
it
really
is.
And
like
with
my
dad,
he's
in
the
VA
system.
So
that's
a
whole
nother,
you
know,
beast
to
try
to
navigate
uh
with
that.
And
then
and
then
what
you
have
with
my
mom,
it
was
okay,
well,
do
you
go
Medicaid
or
do
you
do
private,
you
know,
because
then
you
gotta
look
at
all
the
different
um
avenues
for
that,
and
then
you're
like,
oh
my
god,
the
cost,
and
you
just
are
like,
What
do
you
do?
Because
it's
just
you're
trying
to
do
the
best
for
your
loved
one,
but
it's
really
hard
to
try
to
figure
it
all
out,
and
it's
so
confusing
uh
with
it.

SPEAKER_03
9:44

And
the
same
thing
like
Yeah,
and
I
think
um
uh
on
that
topic,
private
versus
Medicaid,
it's
we
don't
go
anywhere
into
this
kind
of
depth
in
the
book
in
the
book,
but
um
people
should
find
uh
a
consultant,
like
a
Medicare
consultant
or
a
Medicaid
consultant.
There
are
plenty
of
people
who
consult
for
nothing
because
if
they
place
you
in
any
kind
of
a
facility,
they're
they're
compensated
by
the
facilities.
And
it's
licensed
and
regulated,
so
they're
not
incentivized
to
send
you
to
one
place
over
another.
So
there
are
those
people
out
there,
but
again,
you
have
to
ask
your
friends
and
figure
out
where
they
are.
But
what
you
sometimes
find
is
that
there,
if
you
do
decide
to
go
the
Medicaid
route
as
an
example,
there
are
a
lot
of
trade-offs.
Then
you're
limited
to
you're
limited
to
facilities
that
will
take
Medicaid.
And
then
once
the
your
parents
on
Medicaid,
then
they
have
to
get
all
their
medical
through
the
Medicaid
program
and
not
regular
Medicare.
And
so
you're
doing
that
trade-off.
So
obviously,
if
your
parents
have
means
and
there
are
finances
to
support
private
payment,
that's
always
gonna
give
you
the
best
care.
I
mean,
sadly.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02
11:10

But
yeah,
it's
true.

SPEAKER_03
11:11

You
know,
it's
a
lot
to
navigate
there.

SPEAKER_02
11:14

It
really
is,
with
all
of
it.
Uh

Spotting Scams Before They Hit

SPEAKER_02
11:17

and
I
I
also
noticed,
too,
you
mentioned
that
uh
financial
scamps
target
elderly.
Huge,
huge
issue.
What
do
you
think
families
should
watch
for?
And
it's
probably
one
of
the
clues
too,
to
when
you
should
step
in.
What
should
people
look
for?

SPEAKER_00
11:35

Well,
I
mean,
I
think
both
of
us,
Kim,
I
think
you
have
your
mom
experienced
that.
I
can
tell
you
my
mom
and
my
uncle
both
experienced
and
were
caught
up
in
a
a
scam
where
they
were
um
told
that
their
grandchildren
were
in
Mexico
in
jail
and
they
had
to
wire
you
know
$5,000
or
they
would
be,
you
know,
thrown
thrown
in
jail
and
never
heard
from
again
and
scared
the
the
the
crap
out
of
them.
Um
and
unfortunately
they
they
were
so
fearful
and
they
were
told
if
they
reached
out
for
help
that
you
know
the
their
grandsons
would
be
killed.
And
they
did
a
very
good
job
of
imitating
you
know
the
grandkids'
voice.
And
it
came
to
the
point
where,
like,
mom,
why
didn't
you
call
me?
Why,
why
didn't
you
just
ask
for
my
opinion?
I
could
have
told
you
this
was
a
scam.
And
she
goes,
I
was
scared.
I
was
too
scared.
And
that
happened
to
both
my
uncle
and
my
my
mom.
And
um,
you
know,
we
talked
about
it
afterwards,
and
I
said,
Look,
don't
ever
feel
like
if
you're
if
something
like
that
happens
again,
you
can
always
reach
out
to
me.
So
that's
kind
of
what
happened.

SPEAKER_03
12:30

Yeah,
we
had
one
with
my
mother-in-law
um
where
she
was
contacted
by
publishers
clearinghouse
to
let
her
know
that
she
had
won.
And
I
and
to
qualify
it,
this
was
a
woman
who
sent
in
these
publishers'
clearinghouse
forms
nonstop
whenever
they
came
in
the
mail.
So
she'd
sent
in
the
form.
So
for
someone
to
call
and
say
you
won,
is
wow,
something
I
sent,
I
finally,
I
finally
won
this
time.
And
they
did
the
old,
you
know,
we're
gonna
come
by
on
Tuesday
and
bring
you
your
$500,000
check.
Are
you
gonna
be
there?
And
then
they
said,
you'll
have
to
pay
tax
on
this.
But
if
you
can
just
wire
us
$4,200
up
front,
yeah,
then
you
don't
have
to
pay
the
taxes
later.
But
don't
tell
your
children
we
want
this
to
be
a
big
surprise.
So
she
trudged
to
her
local
Fred
Myers
grocer
in
Washington,
and
they
have
a
in
like
a
Western
Union
desk,
and
she
wired
the
money
and
then
called
my
husband
to
let
him
know.
And
um,
you
know,
he's
got
a
background
in
cybersecurity,
so
this
is
like,
well,
let's
call
the
FBI
immediately.
And
the
FBI
said,
once
that
money's
wired
and
gone,
it's
gone.
There's
not
a
way
to
trace
it.
There's
it's
gone.

SPEAKER_02
13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03
13:46

So
that
was
a
difficult
lesson.
With
my
mother,
it
was
a
little
bit
easier.
She
was
very
tech-savvy,
no
dementia.
And
she
would
call
me
up
and
say,
I
got
an
email
from
my
bank
that
says
that
I
owe
them.
I
said,
Mom,
forward
it
to
me.
Don't
click
on
anything.
So
that
became
what
we
did
is
the
forward
it
to
me,
do
not
click
on
anything,
because
I
know
how
to
hover
over
the
sender's
address
and
see
that
it's
being
sent
by
not
Bank
of
America.
Right.
And
you
find
those
little
misspellings,
wrong
word.
So
those
I
think
you
just
have
to
instruct
your
parent.
If
anything
looks
suspect,
don't
touch
it,
don't
click
on
anything,
you
know,
send
it
to
me
or
wait
till
I
can
come
look
at
it.

SPEAKER_02
14:32

And
they
and
I
have
to
say
the
scammers
have
become
way
more
um
sophisticated.
So
it's
it's
harder
and
harder
uh
with
it.
And
I
know
for
my
well,
my
mom
was
never
a
tech
savvy,
like
she
just
had
a
really
basic
cell
phone
and
and
even
that,
it
was
a
flip
phone,
and
even
that
she
hardly
ever
used.
Um,
my
dad
has
an
iPhone,
but
he
gets
so
frustrated
so
easily
uh
trying
to
use
it.
So
I
think
that
kind
of
goes
into
that
too.
I
think
they
just
feel
so
upset
that
they
can't
do
it,
too,
that
they
want
to
try
to
be,
you
know,
because
it
kind
of
it's
so
weird
because
it
flips,
right?
It's
like
how
you
treat
your
little
kids
is
almost
how
you
end
up
treating
your
parents.
And
you
hate
saying
it
that
way,
but
exactly.

SPEAKER_00
15:16

You
become
the
parent,
they
become
the
children.

SPEAKER_03
15:18

Yeah.
What
didn't
they,
Alex?

SPEAKER_00
15:20

I
said
you
become
the
parent
and
they
become
your
children.

SPEAKER_03
15:23

Exactly.
One
little
trick
that
I
started
doing
that
is
good
to
instruct
a
parent.
Um,
I
was
getting
reach
outs
from
a
cousin
of
mine
on
Facebook
who
I
knew
was
not
reaching
out
to
me.
It's
a
cousin
who
has
dementia
and
he
would
not
out
of
the
blue
say,
Hey,
hi,
how
are
you?
So
I
will
respond
back
with
um,
doing
great.
How's
Patty
and
Michael?
Or,
you
know,
just
throw
out
some
made-up
names
that
have
no
relationship
to
the
person
they're
pretending
to
be,
to
see
what
would
happen.
And
usually
what's
the
few
times
I've
done
that,
then
I
don't
hear
anything
back.
But
that's
my
way
of
sort
of,
you
know,
stump
them,
pretend
like,
oh
wow,
it's
so
nice
to
hear
from
you.
Susie's
worried
about
you,
and
then
they'll
go,
oh,
I
know,
tell
her
I'm
okay.
And
then
you're
like,
yeah,
there's
no
Susie.

SPEAKER_02
16:14

So
yeah.
No,
that's
a
good
tip.
That
really
is.
That
is
a
good
tip.

Caregiver Self-Care And Boundaries

SPEAKER_02
16:19

Uh
in
one
you
said
you
dedicated
an
entire
chapter
to
caregivers'
own
self-care.
Why
do
you
think
that
was
necessary?

SPEAKER_03
16:30

Um,
I
I
guess
I'll
start.
Alex
is
nodding
his
head.
Alex
was
Alex
was
pushing
for
this
chapter
more
than
I
was,
even
though
I
think
it's
important.
Um
I
think
you
know,
there's
so
many
studies
that
say
if
you're
not
bringing
your
whole
self
to
this
to
the
table
for
caregiving,
you're
doing
your
parent
a
disservice.
But
you
cannot
bring
yourself
if
uh
your
mental
and
physical
health
is
compromised.
So
whether
it's
and
and
I've
been
doing
yoga
for
40
years
and
Pilates
for
20
years,
and
so
to
me,
it's
having
some
mind-body
practice
is
really
important.
You
don't
have
to,
it
doesn't
have
to
be
athletic,
you
don't
have
to
go
do
these,
you
know,
power
yoga,
vinyasa
flow
classes.
You
go
take
a
meditation
class,
go
sit,
you
know,
sit
on
the
floor
with
your
eyes
closed,
lay
over
a
bunch
of
pillows
doing
yoga
ninja,
just
but
take
that
time
to
breathe
deeply
and
relax
and
reset
and
recharge
the
battery.
I
mean,
I
also
think
it's
really
important
to
get
an
adequate
sleep.
Everyone
says,
you
know,
the
three
things
sleep,
diet,
exercise.
Those
are
the
things.
You
know,
eat
a
healthy
diet.
You
don't
have
to
go
on
a
crazy
diet,
just
get
enough
protein,
you
know,
get
some
carbs,
get
some
fats,
move
around
a
little
bit,
go
for
a
walk,
whatever
it
is,
and
take
that
mental
health
break.
And
then
you're
bringing
a
whole
person
to
the
table.
It's
better
for
you,
it's
better
for
your
parent.
And
then
at
some
point
in
time,
your
parent
will
be
gone,
and
you
don't
want
to
have
done
everything
100%
for
your
parent,
nothing
for
yourself,
and
then
you're
left
just
grieving.
So
I
don't
know,
Alex.

SPEAKER_00
18:24

And
also
losing
your
social
contacts
and
all
the
other
aspects
of
your
life.
Uh,
so
the
impetus
for
me
pushing
for
this
uh
was
um
my
wife
and
I
were
at
one
point
uh
caring
for
four
adults.
Um
her
uh
her
dad
and
her
mom,
uh,
who
just
passed
last
year,
late
last
year,
one
within
four
months
of
the
other,
and
then
uh
I
take
care
of
my
brother
who
has
uh
schizophrenia
and
my
mom,
who's
95
years
old.
Um,
so
it
became
very
evident
watching
my
wife
go
through
the
process
of
watching
her
parents,
you
know,
first
of
all,
being
responsible
for
parents
with
caregivers
around
the
clock
and
the
toll
it
was
taking,
then
eventually
when
they
passed
the
grieving
process
and
and
how
that
affected
her
emotionally
and
physically,
and
you
know,
started
to
have
health
issues
and
that
sort
of
thing,
uh,
it
was
very
evident
that
this
is
a
topic
that
we
got
to
talk
about.
I
mean,
as
Kim
said,
if
you
aren't
able
to
take
care
of
yourself,
you're
not
gonna
be
good
to
any
of
the
people
you're
caring
for
because
you're
gonna
have
a
breakdown,
you're
gonna
have
major
health
issues,
uh,
it's
just
gonna
be
all
downhill.
So
you
have
to
set
boundaries,
you
have
to
balance
your
your
care
with
the
family
members,
with
your
your
life
and
all
the
things
you
want
to
do
with
your
life,
whether
that
be
social,
physical,
take
a
trip,
uh,
get
therapy,
and
and
that
also
is
very
important
too
for
some
people.
Uh
that
that
was
very
helpful
for
my
wife
to
talk
to
somebody
about
it.
Um
and
so
I
think
any
way
which
way
you
can
get
the
support
you
need
so
you
can
get
through
this
process
is
critically
important.
Otherwise,
uh
you
know,
you're
just
not
gonna
make
it
through
the
process.

SPEAKER_03
19:52

So
the
one
thing
I
would
add
to
that
um
that
is
part
of
self-care,
and
Alex
alluded
to
it,
is
support
groups,
whatever
they
are.
Um
whether
it's
a
Facebook
group
online
or
something
at
your
church
or
synagogue
or
other
place
of
worship
or
in
your
neighborhood,
community
center,
senior
center,
wherever
there's
a
place
where
you
can
talk
to
other
people
going
through
the
same
thing.

SPEAKER_02
20:17

I
would
agree
with
that.
Because
it
also
helps
you
too,
because
you
feel
that
guilt.
And
so
when
you're
talking
to
other
people
about
it,
it
helps
you
set
those
boundaries
and
not
feel
so
guilty
to
say,
like,
okay,
today
I
need
to
take
care
of
XYZ
for
me,
and
then
I
can
do
this
later,
you
know.
But
but
it's
hard.
It's
really
hard
to
do
that
because
you
do
feel
guilty.
You
you
just
do.

SPEAKER_00
20:42

And
as
a
caregiver,
you're
always
asking
yourself,
am
I
doing
enough?

SPEAKER_02
20:45

Right?

SPEAKER_00
20:46

Yeah.
And
and
is
it
the
right
thing?
And
am
I
spending
as
much
time
as
I
should?
And
you've
got
to
be
able
to,
you
know,
push,
pull
back
a
little
bit
and
say,
How
am
I
feeling?
How
am
I
doing?
Am
I
okay
in
a
good
place?
Am
I
keeping
and
maintaining
my
support
group,
my
relationships,
my
friendships,
doing
what
I
love
and
what
gives
me
purpose
and
joy
in
addition
to
caring
for
my
family
member.

SPEAKER_02
21:06

And
I
also
think
too,
you
know,
people
always
ask
the
caregiver,
caregiver,
well,
how
are
you?
What
do
you
what
do
you
need?
And
um,
and
it's
to
me
anyway,
I'm
always
like,
I
don't
know,
you
know,
and
sometimes
I
just
wish
somebody
would
just
be
like,
here,
I'm
gonna
do
this
for
you.
Okay,
because
sometimes
you
just
don't
know
how
to
ask.
I
mean
I
find
for
me
some
people
are
easier
to
ask
than
others,
you
know,
something
simple.
And
then
other
times
you're
just
like,
I
don't
know.

SPEAKER_00
21:31

You
know,
and
it's
it's
an
uncomfortable
sometimes.
I
mean,
I
can
say
this
from
my
experience,
it's
an
uncomfortable
topic
to
talk
about
and
say,
when
they
ask
you
how's
everything
going,
well,
it's
not
going
well.
You
know,
my
mom
is
having
tits
and
rants
and
going
through
a
really
difficult
time
with
Alzheimer's,
and
I'm
trying
very
hard
to
stabilize
it.
I
don't
want
to
share
the
proverbial
dirty
laundry
because
I
I
just
don't
think
that's
you
know,
first
of
all,
there's
a
privacy
ish
issue,
but
the
other
part
of
it
is
that
uh
I
just
feel
guilty
doing
that.
I
just
feel
embarrassed.

SPEAKER_02
22:01

Yeah,
I
mean
it
is,
it's
really
hard
you
know,
to
find
that
balance
with
all
of
it
uh
with
it.

Why They Wrote The Guide

SPEAKER_02
22:08

So
why
did
you
two
decide
to
write
the
book
together?

SPEAKER_03
22:14

Okay.
We
were
uh
we
were
both
laid
off
from
our
jobs
at
the
same
time.
We
worked
together.
We
had
a
similar
job.
We
20-year
history
of
working
together,
so
we
decided
to
start
a
business
focused
on
people
in
career
transition,
and
nothing
whatsoever
to
do
with
caring
for
our
parents.

SPEAKER_02
22:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03
22:32

And
we
had
regular
scheduled
meetings
and
we're
working
through
the
business
and
what
to
do.
And
every
other
time
we'd
get
together,
we'd
get
derailed
by
I
had
to
take
my
mother
to
a
doctor's
appointment.
Or
does
your
mother
get
urinary
tract
infections?
What's
up
with
that?
And
it
was
nonstop.
Alex
would
say,
Oh,
I'm
sending
you
something.
And
I'd
pick
up
my
phone
and
there'd
be
a
picture
of
a
transport
wheelchair.
And
Alex
would
say,
This
is
invaluable.
And
I
mean,
it
went
on
like
this
for
a
while.
And
finally
I
just
went,
man,
we
should
just
we
should
write
a
book
on
this.
Because
then
it
started
with,
oh,
yeah,
I
have
this
friend
who's
got
Medicaid
to
pay
for
her
to
care
for
her
mother.
I
didn't
know
you
could
do
that.
You
know,
having
all
these
conversations,
and
we
kind
of
taught
each
other
so
much,
and
then
we
decided,
you
know,
we
should
write
a
book
on
this.
And
in
the
interim,
I
know
lots
and
lots
of
books
have
been
written
on
this
subject.
And
I'm
sure
they're
all
wonderful.

SPEAKER_00
23:30

Yeah,
and
this
is
also
before
AI
as
well.
We
should
add
uh
so
we
we
we
wrote
this
from
scratch.
We
did
it
multiple
times,
and
of
course,
you
know,
we're
doing
this
part-time
while
we
have
other
things
that
we're
doing
in
our
lives.
Um,
Kim
teaches
Pilates,
I
do
uh
executive
coaching
on
the
side
part-time.
So
doing
it
part-time,
you
know,
extended
the
the
time
to
publish
the
book.
But
we
also
heard
not
just
from
our
experiences,
but
the
other
thing
that
kind
of
pushes
over
to
do
this
is
that
we
have
a
lot
of
friends
and
family
dealing
with
very
similar
things
that
we're
dealing
with.
I
have
uh
my
my
wife
has
friends
who
are
literally
uh
like
a
daughter
who's
drives
from
the
west
side
here
to
the
valley,
which
is
basically
a
round
trip
of
50
miles,
and
sees
her
mother
from
eight
to
ten
every
night,
seven
days
a
week.
And
we're
like,
wow,
uh,
you
know,
how
how
can
she
even
do
that?
And
so
we
actually
went
and
spent
some
time
with
her
and
trying
to
get
her
some
help
and
that
kind
of
stuff.
Uh
so
um,
you
know,
everybody
has
a
story,
and
as
you
mentioned
earlier,
Elisa,
is
that
the
population
is
aging
and
you're
seeing
more
people
in
the
90s?
Uh,
my
my
father-in-law
died
at
101.
Oh,
wow.
Uh,
we
have
an
uncle
who
just
died
a
couple
of
weeks
months
ago.
He
lived
to
be
100.
My
dad's
96.
I
mean,
people
are
living
longer
with
all
these
medications,
and
you
know,
that
means
there's
an
increased
burden
on
the
healthcare
system
and
on
the
caregivers.

Advocating In Facilities And At Home

SPEAKER_02
24:44

Is
there
a
particular
case
study
from
the
book
that
really
sticks
with
you?

SPEAKER_03
24:52

There
are
there
are
a
few.
I
mean,
we
have
case
studies
about
taking
the
car
keys
away
from
my
mother-in-law
and
what
that
was
like,
and
um,
some
of
the
case
studies
that
um
in
some
instances
we've
used
the
actual
names,
in
other
instances
we
we've
changed
the
names,
kept
the
story
just
for
the
sake
of
protecting
people's
privacy.
Um
but
I
think,
you
know,
one
of
my
favorite
stories,
it
had
to
do
with
my
mother.
She
was
in
a
rehab
facility.
I
I
didn't
think
much
of
the
rehab
facility,
and
she
didn't
either.
And
they
were
just
absolutely,
in
my
opinion,
treating
her
abusively.
Ultimately,
what
we
did
was
we
we
got
her
moved
to
another
facility.
And
I
actually
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
in
the
book
and
the
implications
of
Medicare
Advantage
versus
Medicare
supplement.
But
the
story
was
um
that
the
import
is
tied
to
the
importance
of
keeping
your
sense
of
humor.
So
my
mother
had
a
full
set
of
teeth.
Um,
she
just
couldn't
get
out
of
bed
to
brush
them.
So
one
day
a
caregiver
came
in
the
room
and
they
were
terrible
about
she'd
say,
I
need
to
use
the
restroom,
and
they
they'd
kind
of
say,
Well,
you
already
went,
you
know,
and
leave
her
in
the
bed
wet
and
things
like
that.
But
this
one
day
a
caregiver
said,
Is
there
anything
else
I
can
help
with?
She
said,
Would
you
please
help
me
brush
my
teeth?
And
the
caregiver
said,
Where
are
they?
Of
course,
there
my
mother
said,
In
my
mouth.
So
she
and
I
had,
you
know,
laughed
till
we
cried
about
that
one.
So
that
was
that
was
sort
of
my
favorite
entertaining
case
study.
We
have
some
many
more
serious
case
studies.
I
don't
know,
Alex,
if
you
have
a
different
favorite.

SPEAKER_00
26:37

I
I
don't
have
a
different
favorite.
I'm
again,
we
have
so
many
different
ones.
I
wish
I
I
thought
of
one
as
you
were
talking
that
reminded
me
of
something
that
we
probably
should
have
put
in
the
book.
And
this
is
one
where
my
mom
lived
uh
at
an
assisted
living
center.
And
there
uh
turned
out
unbeknownst
to
me
at
some
point
that
there
was
a
ladies'
man
who
would
be
going
around
and
trying
to
kiss
older
women
and
you
know,
you
know,
befriending
my
mom
and
befriending
other
women.
And
he
was
a
charlatan,
quite
frankly.
Very
good-looking
guy.
And
I'm
like,
what
the
heck?
You
know,
who
is
this
guy
you're
talking
with
and
texting?
And
I'm
like,
mom,
this
is
not
okay,
you
know.
So
that
was
put
a
stop
to
that.

SPEAKER_03
27:13

You
should
have
put
that
in
the
book,
Alex.

SPEAKER_00
27:14

I
should
have.
I
should
have.
I
should
have
maybe
part
two.

SPEAKER_02
27:18

There
you
go.
Go
ahead.
Well,
and
I
think
too
what
people
uh,
as
we
kind
of
talked
about
a
little
bit
earlier,
but
it's
so
important
when
like
my
mom
had
to
go
to
memory
care.
Uh,
they
had
told
us
that,
you
know,
yeah
by
the
time
she
got
diagnosed,
she
was
already
like
moderate
to
severe
with
her
dementia.
And
she
was
also
still
very
mobile,
so
she
was
kind
of
highly
unusual
that
she
could
be
that
far
advanced
and
she
was
still
mobile.
So
they
were
like,
you're
not
gonna
be
able
to
take
care
of
her
at
home.
So,
you
know,
she
had
to
go
to
memory
care.
But
I
think
it's
so
important
too.
Like
my
dad
and
I
went
like
every
day
for
the
most
part,
and
you
know,
he
would
go,
you
know,
say
in
the
morning,
I'd
go
later
and
things
like
that,
and
how
important
it
is
for
the
family
members
to
be
there
so
that
you
can
be
on
top
of
all
those
things
and
notice
what's
different
with
them
right
away,
and
the
caregivers
and
and
be
able
to
advocate
for
them
at
those
facilities,
you
know,
and
it
would
break
my
heart
sometimes
because
there
would
be
some
residents
there
that
you
never
saw
anybody
come
visit
them.
You
know,
and
I
always
felt
so
bad,
you
know,
because
I'm
like,
they're
still
there,
you
know,
and
it
I
felt
like
it,
especially
with
dementia,
it
was
even
more
important
to
advocate
for
her
and
be
there,
you
know,
because
if
my
dad
and
I
did
mention
something,
it
got
taken
care
of
right
away
because
they
knew
us
so
well,
you
know,
uh,
for
it.
So
it
it
just
it
doesn't
stop
just
because
if
you
have
to,
you
know,
go
to
a
a
different
facility
for
it
than
at
home.

SPEAKER_00
28:50

Yeah,
and
the
other
thing
that
you
have
to
uh
consider,
you
know,
going
to
these
facilities
is
the
ratio
of
caregivers
to
patients.
Because,
you
know,
if
it's
16
to
1
versus
8
to
1,
you
know,
they're
divided
six
ways
come
Sunday,
and
some
patients
need
more
care
than
others,
and
that
means
your
parent
may
get
left
out
and
be
alone
in
a
room
or
maybe
with
a
roommate
that
they
don't
like,
right?
Isolated
for
hours
and
hours
at
end,
and
it's
very
it
can
be
very
depressing.
So
uh,
you
know,
if
you
have
family
members,
in
my
case,
we
we
do
my
uncle
and
her
brother,
and
uh
we
have
a
cousin,
we
rotate
visitations
on
on
a
weekly
basis,
we
bring
her
you
know
food.
Um,
she
has
other
friends
who
visit
her
in
their
activities.
Sometimes
she
wants
to
participate,
other
times
she
doesn't,
but
keeping
track
of
things
and
building
a
relationship
with
uh
the
um
caregivers
on
staff
are
is
really
important
and
uh
they
know
me
really
well
and
they've
been
very
accommodating
and
um
so
uh
just
monitoring
and
being
active
is
is
critical.

SPEAKER_02
29:44

It
really
is.
Yeah,
because
like
I
said,
the
caregivers
knew
who
you
know
I
was,
who
my
dad
was,
and
that
and
so
they
would
be
able
to
tell
us
right
away,
you
know,
whether
it
was
good
or
bad
or
or
things
like
that.
And
then
when
there
were
new
caregivers,
we
were
able
to
say,
like,
and
when
my
mom
first
got
there,
she
liked
to
be
involved
with
things,
and
then
after
a
while
she
didn't
always,
and
I
would
always
we'd
always
say,
Don't
ask
her,
does
she
want
to
go
to
bingo?
Because
she'll
say
no.
But
if
you
ask
her,
oh,
can
you
help
me
set
this
up?
Then
she'd
be
like,
Okay,
and
she'd
go
and
do
it,
you
know.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00
30:17

And
one
more
thing
I'll
add
is
that
you
know,
my
mom
has
Alzheimer's,
but
it
nowhere
as
uh
is
nowhere
as
severe
as
as
your
mom
had.
Um
she
has
uh
um
Alzheimer's,
which
really
is
affecting
her
short-term
memory,
not
long-term
memory.
She
has
a
memory
like
an
elephant,
but
um,
because
of
some
of
the
health
issues
she
has,
uh,
we
had
to,
you
know,
basically
have
somebody
with
her
seven
days
a
week.
So
we
have
a
caregiver
who
s
goes
there,
you
know,
in
the
morning
till
night,
and
not
obviously
24
hours,
and
makes
sure
that
she's
attended
to
with
her
needs
and
doesn't
have
any
episodes
or
wanders
away
or
or
freaks
out
or
anything
like
that.
So
that
that
has
helped.
It's
costly.
Uh
and
you
know,
and
you
know,
that's
something.
And
I
know
Kim
also
went
through
a
similar
situation
where
she
was
supporting
her
mom
financially.
And
that's
another
thing
that
um,
you
know,
is
a
big
factor
here.
It's
like,
you
know,
when
your
parents
potentially
like
run
out
of
money,
you
know,
then
what?
You
know,
it's
a
big
deal,
you
know.
So
that's
that's
a
that's
a
a
factor
you
really
have
to
take
into
consideration.

SPEAKER_02
31:14

Well,
too,
and
I
know
I
I've
had
you
know
as
I
said,
as
the
population
is
getting
older,
I've
had
other
friends
that
they're
going
through
this
with
their
family.
And
it
isn't
any
cheaper
to
have
caregivers
at
home.
It's
just
as
expensive.
You
know,
people
think,
oh,
I'll
just
do
that.
It's
not
cheap
either
way.
You
know,
and
it
and
it's
sad
that
it
is
that
way,
you
know,
and
you
have
to
think
about
all
those
things.

Essential Legal Documents To Have

SPEAKER_02
31:38

Um
so
what
what
kind
of
legal
documents
do
you
recommend
that
every
family
have
in
place
before
a
crisis
hits?

SPEAKER_00
31:46

Okay,
I'll
take
this
one.
In
in
uh
again,
this
is
coming
from
California,
but
I
think
two
things
that
really
help
smooth
the
waters
for
for
me
with
my
mom.
One
was
getting
her
to
sign
a
power
of
attorney,
and
there
are
two
elements
of
that.
One
is
the
the
uh
health
care
decisions
that
we
make.
So,
for
example,
uh
if
um
you
know
um
she
needs
medication
or
I
have
to
talk
to
the
doctor,
I'm
free
to
do
that.
And
the
other
is
uh
my
managing
her
finances
and
having
the
right
to
you
know
control
her
bank
accounts
and
savings
and
pay
our
caregivers
and
all
that.
So
signing
a
power
of
attorney
with
both
financial
accountability
and
health
care
decision-making
uh
ability
really
has
smooth
the
waters
in
terms
of
my
caring
for
my
mom.
And
then
the
other
document
that's
equally
important
is
the
Pulse,
which
is
basically
end-of-life
decisions
whether
if
something,
an
event
were
to
happen,
does
she
want
to
be
you
know
resuscitated
or
not,
depending
on
this
the
situation,
having
that
document,
you
know,
signed
on
file
so
doctors
and
caregivers
know
what
to
do
in
the
event
that
she
has
a
severe
issue.
Um,
we
went
through
a
situation
like
this
many
years
ago
with
my
grandmother,
and
I
remember
my
my
she
had
um
you
know
a
heart
attack,
and
the
the
doctor
asked,
um,
do
you
want
us
to
resuscitate?
And
we
asked
her,
What
does
that
entail?
Uh
it
entails
chest
compressors,
and
at
95
years
old,
her
ribs
will
crack
and
penetrate
her
lungs.
And
when
we
heard
that,
we're
like,
uh
no,
we
don't
want
to
go
there.
So
we
we
decided
to
you
know
to
let
her
pass,
and
she
passed
peaceful,
peacefully,
fortunately.
Um,
but
learning
from
that
experience,
we
made
sure
that
you
know
all
of
our
family
members
have
post
agreements.
Um
so
and
the
last
one
I'll
say
is
trust
agreements.
Trust
agreement
is
important
so
that
if
you
have
uh
parents
with
inheritance
uh
uh
funds,
then
it
doesn't
get
taken
by
the
state,
get
that
done.
So
and
we
just
went
through
this
with
my
my
wife
with
her
her
parents
passing
between
um
her
brother
and
and
my
wife.
Uh,
that
process
was
very
smooth
because
of
the
trust
of
the
funds
and
selling
the
house
and
all
those
things
you
have
to
do
and
divesting
uh
the
assets
went
very,
very
smoothly,
and
we
were
able
to
get
that
done,
you
know,
in
in
short
order.
But
imagine
not
having
that
or
having
siblings
who
are
fighting
over
money
or
fighting
over
assets.
That
it
that
can
be
just
a
nightmare.

SPEAKER_02
33:50

So
and
I
am
very
grateful
that
my
parents
had
did
the
powers
of
attorney
years
before
my
mom
they
got
sick
because
we
had
a
family
member
that
did
get
sick,
and
that
made
them,
you
know,
realize
that.
And
so
I've
I've
always
been
very
grateful.
And
then
even
when
my
mom
got
sick,
my
dad
went
and
updated
it.
So
this
way
I
was
the
first
one
on
there
and
stuff
like
that.
Uh
for
I
mean,
I
know
people
don't
like
to
talk
about
it,
but
it's
really
important
because
when
it
hits,
you
need
those
things.

SPEAKER_01
34:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02
34:20

You
really
do.
So

Where To Find The Book Online

SPEAKER_02
34:22

you
have
uh
a
website
as
well.
It's
caring
for
the
number
four,
agingparents.com.
So
what
entails
what's
on
the
website
as
well?

SPEAKER_03
34:32

It
it's
mostly
um
it's
mostly
about
the
book,
you
know,
uh
links
to
where
you
can
buy
the
book.
A
couple
of
our
blogs
are
on
the
site.
Um,
we
are
in
the
process,
hopefully,
it's
a
big
learning
curve
for
me,
but
of
migrating
to
a
different
platform.
Okay.
And
when
we
one
that
I
know
how
to
use
better
than
the
the
site
that
we
had
built
for
us.
And
when
we
do
that,
then
all
of
our
blogs
will
be
there
as
well.
Because
we
um
we
blog
every
week,
and
so
we're
producing
much
more
new
information
than
what's
in
the
book.
We're
talking
about
more
deep
things
about
sibling
rivalry
when
you
know
siblings
can't
agree,
things
like
protection
from
scams,
how
to
fall
proof
a
house.
I
mean,
whatever
it
is,
we've
we've
taken
the
book
and
put
it
on
steroids
with
the
blog.
And
right
now
you
have
to
go
to
Substack
and
it's
carrying
the
number
for
agingparents.substack.com
to
read
the
blogs.
We
do
from
the
book
site,
the
caringforagingparents.com,
you
can
link
to
our
Substack,
our
Instagram,
our
Facebook.
We
have
all
those
links
on
the
site.
But
that
site
itself
is
mostly
about
the
book
and
about
us.

SPEAKER_02
35:54

Okay.
And
where
else
can
people
buy
the
book?
And
the
and
the
name
of
the
book
is
Survival
Guide
to
Caring
for
Aging
Parents.

SPEAKER_03
36:01

Correct.
So
it's
everywhere.
Okay.
Um
we
made
sure
that
it
was
everywhere
because
we
have
you
know
friends
and
family
who
boycott
certain
vendors.
So
we
made
sure
that
it's
uh
it's
on
Amazon,
it's
on
Barnes
and
Noble.
It's
we
went
through
Ingram
Spark,
so
it
got
pushed
out
to
uh
Kobo
and
Apple
Books,
and
you
can
find
it
online
and
it'll
show
up
in
things
that
we
never
heard
of,
like
thrifty
books
and
that
tend
to
overcharge
there.
So
um
I
urge
that
you
like
use
the
links
from
my
website
to
not
pay
extra.
But
we
are
also
an
audiobook.
Okay.
So
um
Audible,
Apple,
Google
Play,
we're
in
all
those
places
on
audiobook.
And
also
my
new
favorite
that
I
promote
whenever
I
can,
which
is
Libre.fn,
because
this
is
intended
to
support
local
small
booksellers.
So
you
can
sign
up
for
it
the
same
way
you
would
for
other
larger
audiobook
platforms.
And
you
you
get
a
book
a
month,
it's
the
same
price
as
other
platforms,
but
you
get
to
designate
the
local
bookstore
you
want
to
support.
So
I
have
a
neighborhood
woman-owned
bookstore
where
I
live,
and
I
support
that.
So
when
I
download
a
book,
whatever
those
royalties
are
that
go
to
the
bookstore,
instead
of
them
going
to
the
big,
big
billionaire
guys,
it
goes
to
my
local
bookstore.
So
that's
I
love
Libro.fm.
I
love
that.

SPEAKER_02
37:35

Okay.
Yeah.

unknown
37:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02
37:36

We
have
to
talk
about
it.

SPEAKER_00
37:37

I'll
just
add
we're
also
on
Kindle,
uh,
an
ebook.
That's
the
other
one.
Oh
yeah.

SPEAKER_02
37:40

Oh
yeah,
yeah.
So
there's
all
different
platforms.
So
that
that's
really
cool.
Uh,
and
you
have
lots
of
lots
of
good
information
for
everybody
here
because
it
is
like
you
said,
it
is
a
maze
that
we
have
to
try
to
figure
out
for
it.

Final Takeaways And Goodbye

SPEAKER_02
37:54

So
it
is.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
here.
I
I
really
thank
you
so
much.
Yes,
yes.
You've
given
us
so
much
information.
So
hopefully
you
will
check
out
the
book
as
well.
And
you've
learned
a
lot
for
us
as
we
get
figure
our
way
through
the
maze.
So
please
join
us
again.
I
hope
you
enjoyed
your
cup
of
coffee,
your
cup
of
tea,
or
if
you're
really
having
that
bad
day,
that
glass
of
wine,
and
you
join
us
for
another
episode
of
Patty's
Place.