Cooking Can Carry You Through Grief-Interview with Patti Comeau-Simonson

Welcome And Why This Show

SPEAKER_01
0:10

Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we're going to talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. I named this podcast in honor of my mom, Pat, who passed away from dementia about two and a half years ago. So I wanted people to know you have a place to come where you don't feel so alone during such an overwhelming time in your life. So grab your cup of coffee, your cup of tea, or if you're having a really bad day, a glass of wine and come join

Meet A Peer Grief Specialist

SPEAKER_01
0:32

us. So today I'm really excited about our guest. We actually, you're our first Patty on Patty's place. Patty Camo Simpsonson. Did I say it right?

unknown
0:44

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01
0:45

Simons Simpson. Simonson, sorry. Patty Camo Simonson. You are a peer grief specialist and a bereavement professional since 2007. And you're also the author of Healing, Working Through Grief One Plate at a Time, which I love before that. So welcome to Patty's Place. Thank you, Lisa. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me on. So tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you end up here being a grief specialist and everything?

SPEAKER_02
1:21

Well, um, I say I've lived like three lifetimes, which is I'm certainly old enough to live three lifetimes, I think, but but um certainly not by choice. Um some were and some weren't. Um I originally was a hairdresser for 20 years, uh, married to my my love of my life husband, and had to raise two wonderful sons. Um, and I I was hairdressing and then I was part-time hairdressing and working in our office because we had a heating company. Um and so I was doing both things. The latter one was not something I enjoyed doing too awfully much because it's being in an office and not being with people, beyond the phone, that kind of thing, book work, all of that, but I did it, you know, because

When Losses Stack Up Fast

SPEAKER_02
2:10

it was our family. And and uh, and then um in in my mid-40s, um David uh was diagnosed with uh colon rectal cancer. And that was a shock in itself. And um so uh he he was diagnosed at 48 and he passed away just a month after his 50th birthday.

SPEAKER_00
2:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02
2:42

Um, but he he was an amazing person. Before the show started, you were telling me about your mom and how people gravitated to her. She was that kind of a person. He was too. He he just everybody just loved him. So the loss was we come from a small town, and um it, you know, and he has a he came from a not his initial family, but a lot of large family that extended. And um and and so everybody knew him, and also being in business, um, he just was uh an awesome, awesome person. So the loss um when he so I had just be not, let's see, um David passed the the July before um he passed, because he passed in April, the July before that, uh I had retired, officially retired from hairdressing because um I was busy in the office, but more than that, the year before David died, my mom passed away. Okay. And uh the year before she passed away, my sister's husband was killed in a tragic car accident. Oh wow, okay. So uh in those three years, it was we were enveloped in grief. Yeah. Um, and I actually I just did a Mother's Day blog, interestingly, um uh on on my blog and a video, um, because for a long, long, long time um I didn't feel as though I properly grieved for my mom because I was just so tied up with David's sickness. And um, although he made it very easy for everyone, he worked right up until almost the very end. So um, but anyway, um, so uh hospice he had uh for the last uh month, and uh it was wonderful. Um, and um they just truly were there for not only David, uh, but for my family, my two sons, who were 22

Hospice Care And Giving Back

SPEAKER_02
5:00

and three uh at the time. And uh so um they were wonderful. And I, in the back of my mind, soon after he passed, I knew that in some way I was going to give back to hospice. I'd hadn't any idea. I didn't obviously I didn't know what I was doing anyway for a long time afterwards. So um, but I just did have that in the back of my mind that somehow, I didn't know how, I would be uh involved with hospice. And um so after a couple of years, um, there was a little uh blurb in the paper about becoming a volunteer for hospice. Okay. I was very thick in in the business, having to carry on our heating business with my younger son and the people that work for us. It was I had no choice, that's what I had to do. And um that was that was challenging. Um, so but anyway, um about two years after he had passed, I um saw that ad in the paper and then um went for an interview and uh they were wonderful and and said that I was because you have to be ready. I mean and I and I had done my work. I am a a huge advocate for you gotta do your work while you're grieving, because if you don't, it just is gonna come back and bite you in somewhere where you do not want to get bitten.

SPEAKER_01
6:31

Yeah, you you really can't run away from it, even though you'd like to, you you can't.

SPEAKER_02
6:36

It definitely will walk, you've got to go through it. You can't go around it, you know. Right. And I had done my work, I had done support groups, uh, you know, I had done counseling, um, you know, all of that. And uh so they felt I was ready to volunteer and I could eke out a couple of hours a week uh to and I did patient care, where I would go to the person's home uh and stay with the patient uh and either read or just talk or or whatever I needed to do, but it gave the caregiver respite, which is huge. Yes, yes, it is. And uh so I did that. I was a volunteer in that capacity, and then many other capacities, because once they found out that you were the kind of person you were, I was, I couldn't, I mean, I just couldn't get enough. And and um, and I was fortunate because uh by three years after that, my my youngest son got married, and um, and so my daughter-in-law came into the office and it helped me to get those few hours. But eventually, so I volunteered for at least 10 years. Okay. And um, and then uh because I'd gotten to know so many people in the organization, um, and they got to know me, that I was approached uh by the bereavement director uh at that hospice, and she asked that she asked if I would be interested in becoming a bereavement assistant for her. It was a part-time job, which is all I could take. But I was excited. I couldn't, I thought, oh, this is awesome. Right, right. And it was, it was just so good. Um, it lent to kind of kind of capsulize it. It led to a full-time job.

SPEAKER_01
8:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02
8:26

And which time my daughter-in-law took over the office. Uh, so that worked out perfectly. Uh, I um I was encouraged by all the young women that were, I was now in my, I was in my early 50s, you know, by by then. And and um of obviously the the social workers, the bereavement counselors, the chaplains, they were all you know, 30-ish, you know, like that. So I felt like Mother Superior, but but um they they they were wonderful. They they just you know took to me and I to them, and they encouraged me to go back to school. Okay. And I thought, oh no, no, I can't do that. Goes to show you you can do so many things that you never thought you ever, ever would do. That's true. Um, yeah, and uh so I went back to school and I received my theonatology certificate, um, which is the education of death and dying and that. Then I I took many courses in in regards to the skills that you need to have, because I felt like I my role had become a lot more in the organization, and I really I was the first person that people spoke to when they were calling for help.

SPEAKER_01
9:42

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02
9:43

Which was perfect.

SPEAKER_01
9:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02
9:44

Because most of the time they were calling to find out should they join a support group, should they have seek you know, one-on-one counseling. And so I was that person, and I sort of I not square, I scheduled all the support groups and all of that. So I really uh got to talk to many, many, many people. Um, while I was in school, I I uh the we had to do for to get receive your certificate, what they call a scholarly plot project. Okay. And I decided, because what was coming through from the people that were attending support groups, after an eight-week support group, they would be saying the paperwork that I would be receiving, they'd be telling me, uh, it's not enough. What do I do now? Right. Where do I go now? You know? And um what I was learning in school while I was there uh was um how to be a peer and facilitate support groups to your peers. Okay. So I ended up uh talking it over with my I did the paper on that. I got a very good grade. Well, good. And uh and uh and then I talked to my boss about the possibility of of doing that, and she was for it.

Training Peer Support Group Leaders

SPEAKER_02
11:05

And so I developed the program. She said, let me see what it would look like. And um, so it's an eight-week training program to become a peer facilitator. And you know, like becoming a volunteer, you also had to be ready to do that, and um, you know, because you can't carry over, it's not about you, it's about who you're facilitating, you know. Right. And um, so anyway, um, that's how I became a peer facilitator. Uh I trained over 20 facilitators. Okay. And and that program was the first peer program on the North Shore um of the East Coast. Okay. Um, now it's very popular, very, very popular, but um then it was unheard of. And uh so it worked out really well. I'm very proud of that program, and it continues today. And um, yeah, so so that's how that came

Cooking As A Healing Practice

SPEAKER_02
12:04

about. Um the the cookbook piece of it. Um, and I I I always like to clarify, it is a cookbook, there there is no doubt, but um it's really about grief and healing. The cook, the uh, the it's about because of my lived experience, having lost my mom, having a year later losing the love of my life, um, having my brother-in-law uh pass and having to really be a caregiver for my sister. Um I I and then working at hospice for so many years and developing this program and everything, I had a background now where um, and I could, you know, uh teach what I've learned. So it's basically what it really is technically, they call it, the publishers call it a teaching memoir. Okay. Um, with recipes at the end. Okay. So because it's rest it's recipes for healing. Okay. Um working through grief one plate at a time. And the reason for that was basically because, as you probably might imagine, I love to cook and I always have loved to cook. And certainly it's all in the um the beginning of our married life, and then when he was sick and everything, I mean, obviously I was cooking like crazy. I was thinking I was gonna save him with my food, you know. But well, food is love, so it is, it is, it's a yes, it sure is, you know, and uh it's a way of showing love too. It is, you know, it definitely is, yeah. And uh so so um so I just have always loved to cook. Um, and I um when after David died, it was like, okay, no, I'm not interested right now, and um, I just didn't care about it. Um, and that's pretty normal. I really wasn't even eating all that well. That's also very normal. Uh, as long as you take in your fluids and eat a little bit, uh, you're okay because it's not gonna last. It shouldn't last, you know. And if it does last, that's when uh hopefully someone is looking out for you to to get you to the doctor or a therapy or something in order to get you through a tough moment, you know. Um but eventually, actually through the support group that I was going to actually uh started me in that uh situation whereby um I was in a support group. Now I was 46 years old. Um and the support group at that time they didn't have young widowed groups, okay, which of course they they do now. Yeah um and um that would have been where I would have gone had they had one, but it was just a loss of spouse partner. And I was in a group with women that were probably my age now, um, you know, all in their 70s and um, but the one true thing we had in common was that we all lost the love of our lives. The difference was uh that they had been married for over 50 years, most of them had uh grandchildren, but they also loved cooking. Okay, and so every week they would come in and talk about all the things they had cooked throughout the week. And I was loving that. I really found that really enjoyable to hear that, you know, and thought, okay, well, maybe it's time to start getting back into it. And um, so I did and everything. This book didn't come along until just a few years ago. Um, when three actually, I started it three years ago, um, because um I was encouraged by all those beautiful women that I still am in contact with, those young social workers who are now a bit older and everything, to say, you know what, you need to write this. And and maybe it should be you should write about recipes that meant something to you. And so for me, cooking was part, uh it was like a healing tool for me. Um, and you know, during my grief and and all to this day, if I'm having a bad day, um, one of the things I'll end up doing is cooking because it grounds me, it puts me in a sacred place. Um, I need to focus uh on something other than whatever my problem might be. And that's what I was doing when I was healing, while I was going through the process of healing, was I would go into my kitchen, which was my sacred spot, and all the things I couldn't control what was happening that when I was cooking while David was ill, I couldn't control anything that was going on at that time. And what you know, when you're caring for someone, you know that, you know, there's everything, but I I could control that one thing.

SPEAKER_01
17:20

Right. And um and I I had found um I find comfort in making the recipes that my mom used to make because I think of those memories, you know, because she taught me how to cook, how to bake. I used to joke with her and tell her that one of my favorite childhood memories was baking cookies at Christmas time with her. You know, so you do find that comfort, like you almost crave it because you you feel closer to them, or you think of those happy memories with it. I'm I'm getting goosebumps when you say that.

SPEAKER_02
17:50

Because that is absolutely positively true. It is. And when I just told you that I did on my um my my blog this uh past week, I did a Mother's Day uh blog and a video. And um my now the interesting thing is that my mom was not a good cook. Okay. By her own admission. I mean, I shouldn't say she wasn't a good cook, she cooked very well what she did cook. Okay, but she didn't enjoy it. She always said she'd rat much prefer read read a good book. And she was the first to admit it, you know. But the things that she did cook, she did very well. And one of her many, because coming from where I came from, the uh we it's uh seafood, and my dad clammed and my husband, David, he clammed. So we always had seafood of any kind. So seafood dishes she really excelled in, and one of them was New England Clamp Dowder. Okay, and um I make that a lot. I feel like she's with me right when I'm doing it. It gives me nothing but smiles and such a good comforting feeling. And um, food is comfort, and so you know, I I just feel like for me, cooking was a tool for me. Uh and um, you know, for some people it's uh uh dancing, you know. I mean, it there's so many things you can do to find comfort, you know, that whatever works for you, obviously, but for me it was cook cooking. And um, so that book was inspired by a lot of the young women that that I had worked with who said, you know, you should do it.

SPEAKER_01
19:39

And um it makes me think of a a lot of my favorite stories are that with my mom or of all are around the kitchen. Like she used to tell me, if you could read, you could read a recipe. If you could read a recipe, you could cook, she would say. But then as she, you know, as she got older, she'd be like, she'd look at a recipe, and if it was too long, she'd be like, I'm not making that. That's too long, too many ingredients, I'm not doing it. Or if it she had to roll out dough or things like that, she would wait and then she'd be like, You do it, and then we'll, you know, go to Yeah, and then she's like, Here's my rolling pin because I'm not using it

What To Say To Someone Grieving

SPEAKER_01
20:13

anymore. I was like, Okay, you know, um, one of the things I see on your profile, you say, please don't tell a grieving person that they're in a better place. What do you think a grieving person really needs to hear?

SPEAKER_02
20:30

Um, okay. Um, they don't need to hear that. I mean, we we we we ourselves, we kind of almost know that. And if you're a person of faith, you do know that. Right. Okay. But at that moment in time, it really is not the thing you should be saying. Um, what you could, you know, sometimes and I understand it because it our culture is uncomfortable with grief. Yes, and people don't know what to say. And their main goal is they do not want to upset you, they do not want to make you feel bad, they don't want to make you cry. I say to that, you're not gonna do any of those things because chances are they feel bad, they are upset, and they've been crying. So don't worry about that. Really don't. Sometimes if if uh simply saying I am so sorry, I can't imagine how you're feeling. And if you're a person who hasn't lost your mom, that's very easy to say because that person doesn't understand right how you're feeling. If you're a person who's not lost your husband, you can, you know, you that you if you've lost your husband, I mean, you that is a thing to say because you have lost your husband. Same with the mom. So saying I if you have not had experience a loss, just saying, I I am so sorry, I can't imagine. Imagine what you're going through. Also, if you if you, as the person who is sharing condolences, if you had a good memory of that person, share it. Yeah. Because that gives, I know it did to me. I mean, I uh for both my mom, my mom was very well loved, so wasn't David. Again, from being from a small town, you know, people know everyone. Um, people had stories that they wanted to share, and I wanted to hear that. That made me, it might have made me feel a little sad. Um, and it maybe brought tears to me, but that's okay because what it does is it lets me know that other people's people are feeling the loss too. I'm not the only one.

SPEAKER_01
22:51

Yeah, I find comfort in that. As a matter of fact, at my mom's service, my mom wanted people to tell whatever stories she said, you know, do, you know, do that. And um, my cousin's kids came up to me because they were close with my mom. You know, she had they were over at her house since they were babies, and they were like, Can we tell this story about Auntie Patty? And I go, You can tell whatever story you want. And they were like, This is one of our favorite stories. And it made everybody laugh because it was so like they just you know, they love that story about her. And I was like, And it did. You just found you found comfort in talking about them.

SPEAKER_02
23:27

You do, but people feel like they have to say something, and um and so that's one of those things that you know people say, you know. I I they also uh with me, with my experience when um uh David died, um, I had somebody in the at the at the wake say to me, uh, you're young, you'll meet someone again. Which I hear like, what? Yeah. If I wasn't a lady, I would I would have hacked them, I'm sure. But I I but but but of course I was not happy to hear something like that at the time. But I completely understand it. Was it the wrong, really wrong thing to say? Yeah, uh, definitely. But that person is a lovely, lovely person. They meant no harm at all. And most people don't mean harm when they're talking to you and trying to tell you how sorry they are. Um, but you know, sometimes they just say a little too much, which sometimes just saying I'm so sorry is enough. And and if it's appropriate, a nice hug. Mm-hmm. You know, I I missed hugs for a long time. Yeah. It's like, you know, I you do, you just miss that, you know.

SPEAKER_01
24:53

So well, I remember the night before my mom passed, a really good friend of mine called me, and I found great comfort in his words of just saying, There's nothing I can say to make you feel better, you know. Absolutely. And I was yeah, there are no words, but the fact that you said that to me gave me comfort.

SPEAKER_02
25:14

Yeah, no, I know it isn't that I mean it's amazing, truly, you know. But I mean, everybody is trying and and they are if if they're there, that means they had some good memories of your mom and they just wanted to show your support, their support for you, you know. I mean, so we have to sort of remember that. At the time it's kind of hard, but but um eventually you do understand why things are said. It's just that from my book, there's a lot of things that you can say and not say, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01
25:46

Um, you know, yeah, because you're like, I I get that, but they're still not physically here, even though of course you or they say, Well, they're not suffering anymore. And you're like, Well, I know that. And I thought that I want them to suffer, but I wish they were here and they never had to suffer, you know.

SPEAKER_02
26:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01
26:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02
26:04

Exactly. You know, again, we just feel like we have to. I mean, I've learned so much, I'm sure you have too, you know. Um, but you do when you're walking in those shoes, you do learn so much. And you do there are there is an etiquette, believe it or not, you know, and um people again, because grief in our culture is not expressed the way it's not talked about the way it should be, really. Um people are uncomfortable, people are uncomfortable. Um, because and I think mainly because um your mortality just sort of jumps up in front of you, you know. It's like, well, if that happened to that person, gee, you know, I'm that person's age. Then maybe that'll happen to me, you know, or you know, my mom hasn't been well and Lisa's mom has just died. I wonder, you know, how soon will it be for my mom? Mortality comes. So it makes people think about that. And then it makes them even more uncomfortable when it should be a discussion out in the open. Really.

SPEAKER_01
27:16

Yeah, I think. It yeah, it really should be.

When Grief Feels Unbearable

SPEAKER_01
27:20

So what do you want someone who's maybe deep in grief right now to know more than anything else?

SPEAKER_02
27:27

Okay. Um, and that's a that's a really good question. Um first off, um and you know, if somebody said this to me early on, I maybe wouldn't have believed them. You know, I I would have hoped I would have accepted it, but and I'm sure I would have accepted it, but I probably wouldn't have believed them. I would tell someone this deep excruciating, gut-wrenching pain that you are in right now will not last. It won't. Um it can't. It it physically can't. Um because as you well know, I'm sure, if you you know what your body is doing or not doing when you are in that gut-wrenching horrific pain. Um, your body is like shutting down. You're just not taking care of yourself, you're not, you're just simply really into that pain. And it so your body really helps you along the way, even though you're not aware of it, it does help you. Your body can't stay in that pain. And hopefully, um, I always hope that people have a good support system. So the second thing I would say is that um the first that being that that gut wrenching pain won't last, it will soften. It does soften, it won't go away, it's not gonna go away. Um, but it it's it softens. And the the second thing I would say is really lean in to your support system if you have one. Um, and I hope that people do have one. That's my wish for everyone to really have a good, strong support system, and that includes getting um like therapy, like um bereavement counseling um from a bereavement counselor. Um, because your support system, as wonderful as it is, and you have to have it. You can't what people don't understand is or I think they realize they you can't grieve alone. It's impossible to grieve alone. And um so with your support system and then the with the help with a professional to who it has, your support system is generally your family members or a very good friend who are really invested in you, or your or your minister, or your priest, or your rabbi, any of those people, that you have a really good relationship. But eventually, as wonderful as that can be, um, and I I am hopeful that it is for most people, um, a bereavement professional is absolutely something that everybody should take advantage of. Because that person uh may or may not have experienced the loss of you, of what you've experienced, but they are skilled in grief and loss. And and they're also not attached, they have no history with you. So they're coming from a really good, solid place where they can just advise you and talk to you, sometimes talk you down off a cliff, you know, things like that, that maybe a close family member or friend or a priest or anyone like that can't get to you that way, you know. So I truly believe that um you you it's a wonderful thing to be able to reach out and get um bereavement care as well. Um, so those are the really the two things to tell to to say it's because it won't the the awful pain won't last. I mean, it'll last long enough. Right. Oh, for sure. Yeah, you know, for sure. I'm not saying it's gonna be over in a month. No, no, I don't mean that, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01
31:50

Um the intense pain doesn't last as long as you think it will. It the it's still there, the hurt, but the it that intensity isn't exactly yeah. And that I would always encourage people to, yeah, because sometimes your support system, like you were saying, they mean well, but sometimes it just isn't it's not exactly what you need, or I like you said, if you go like to a hospice or uh bereavement counselor, they're not attached, so they're able to give you tools to help you. That's right, you know, to build and help you do a little bit better or just help you get through things where sometimes when you're dealing with family and friends, sometimes you you feel obligated to do certain things and maybe you're just not ready to do it.

SPEAKER_02
32:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01
32:38

And exactly.

SPEAKER_02
32:39

And we don't often have the I guess the courage at that moment to say, no, I I can't. We I think we're ultimately caregivers ourselves, and I um that can be detrimental at a lot of times because it is important to make sure people do know your boundaries, you know. Um, and uh it is really important because um some people will take advantage of that. Also, I would say too, um, you know, I'm all for a great strong support system, but sometimes um that's good as long as they're not um giving you their opinions as to what you should and shouldn't do, kind of thing, which is a normal, natural thing to do if you are a close family member because you love that person. You love that person. Right. But that's that's why you need uh that's why to me it's very important to have a bereavement uh professional uh that you can you we tend not to tell our most sacred thoughts to those closest to that's very true because we don't want to upset them. We don't want to upset them, right? And um, but you can you can say whatever you want to a bereavement professional, and that person will just sit there and go, I understand completely. Maybe it should be handled this way. Why do you think this happened this way? Why are you feeling those feelings? That's what they are there for, you know, and uh so it's important, it's very, very important.

SPEAKER_01
34:33

Yeah, I yeah, I I told several of my friends who've had similar situations in that. I was like, I'm just telling you, it helps, you know. And I I always feel good when you know they have taken, you know, they've they've called and they've they've done it because they are getting the tools that they need because everybody's grief is different. You can't compare grief. And so yeah, when you're talking to a professional like that, they can help you that's right with that. Absolutely, yeah. It it just should be part of the process, part of the grieving process for people.

SPEAKER_02
35:07

It is, and it is a process, and it lasts a very long time. Um, it doesn't ever leave, um, you know, but again, it softens, and you know, we're meant to continue living because we're here. We're here, and that person that we lost wants that more than anything for us to continue living, to have joy, to have hope, to have happiness how in whatever form that may look. Um, the person you lost, I can guarantee you, uh, wants that more than anything. So we're we're that's really part of the grieving process is for us to continue. And while we're continuing, we're honoring their memory. You know, we're we're taking them with them. I always feel like uh I David has been with me. I mean, last month was 33 years that he's been gone. Oh wow, okay, yeah, and um some days, like it was just yesterday, yeah, and other days it's like wow, yeah, I've lived three lifetimes, you know, and wow, but he has been with me in everything. And I, you know, obviously this book is dedicated to him. And um and so yeah, I I I it's amazing, but it's always there, and I just take him with me on everything and then everything, everything that's happened to me, he's been carried along with me. It's his legacy too, you know. Um, and you and you want that to be, you want that to be um available to free future generations, you know, like the grandchildren, your your mom's grandchildren, I'm sure, have their own wonderful memories, you know.

SPEAKER_01
37:06

Um yeah, and I I feel like too for me anyway, like I said, I I find comfort when I'm talking about my mom. And then like I do always feel like she's she's with me, and then that's another way to keep her alive by talking about her. And you know, I always feel like she sends me signs or I like I know she's she's there.

SPEAKER_02
37:26

Absolutely, absolutely. And I will say one, I will add one other thing, which uh because this is also important to me too, um, is that um don't ever stop saying their name. And and and that's the other thing. People are afraid to say their name in front of you for fear that you're gonna be upset and cry and whatever. And and you know, in the beginning, yes, that may very well happen. That may very well happen, but don't stop saying that person's name and tell anybody around you that you feel that might be a little nervous about mentioning their name, not to be. Don't be. Yeah, they have a past.

SPEAKER_01
38:07

Yeah, I I say that to people all the time. I'm like, I find comfort in talking about my mom, you know, it makes me smile, makes me laugh, you know. Because then you think of other things uh for that. Um, and like I said, like you said, it it honors them and it continues, continues their legacy as well.

Where To Find The Book

SPEAKER_01
38:25

So, where can somebody buy your book? Healing, working through grief one plate at a time. It's recipes for healing.

SPEAKER_02
38:32

Recipes for healing, sorry. Yeah, that's okay. And and it doesn't mean that the about the recipes in the book, because I mean, we have recipes to to learn how we can heal. You know, there are recipes in the book as to how ways we can heal, things we can do. Um, you know, so um it my book can be bought on Amazon. Okay. Um uh it can be bought on Amazon, it can be bad bought at Barnes and Noble. Some of the Barnes and Noble stores has the book. Um I I don't know if I I doubt all of them do, but I there are some. But uh down here uh they have them and up north they have them because I've reached out to both areas, you know. So um so Barnes and Noble, Amazon, uh uh Balboa plus uh Balboa Press who published the book also can be bought on there. And but probably more importantly, um my website um at um pattycamo simonson.com. Um is I I do uh probably week uh blogs twice a month. Okay. And I just I just finished one today about all kinds of aspects of grief and grieving and and tips and ideas and thoughts like that. Um so um actually the one that I did that I just finished today is that grief changes, but it it doesn't end you. And it doesn't. Uh so that's what it is there too. And you can buy the book there on the website there, which actually will would take you right to Amazon, I believe, anyway. You know, so um so basically it's you know, but yeah, but it would be great. People could go to the website and find other articles that might be helpful.

SPEAKER_01
40:23

And we will put all of this on the website, your website as well as recipes for healing, working through grief one plate at a time, so people can purchase that at Amazon or on your website as well. So yeah, thank you so much for joining us today, Patty. This has been very, very interesting, very delightful so far.

SPEAKER_02
40:42

Thank you, Lisa.

SPEAKER_01
40:43

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02
40:44

I'm I'm I'm grateful that you had me on and I appreciate it. Thank

Closing Thanks And Subscribe

SPEAKER_02
40:48

you.

SPEAKER_01
40:48

So I hope you've enjoyed another episode of Patty's Plays. So make sure you leave us a review or subscribe to our channel on YouTube. So I hope you enjoyed your cup of coffee, your cup of tea, or for us that really bad day, a glass of wine, and join us for another edition of Patty's Place.