Understanding Long-Term Care Insurance And Smarter Ways To Pay For Care: Guest Raymond Levine

SPEAKER_01:
0:10

Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we'll talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. I dedicate this podcast to my mom who passed away about two years ago from dementia. So pull up a get get your cup of tea, your cup of coffee, or like I said, if you have having a really bad day, a glass of wine. And today I thought we would talk about long-term care and financial investments because it's something that you don't think about until you need it. So today's guest is Raymond Levine. He is the principal at Levine LTC Benefits, which offers long-term care insurance benefits to individuals, families, and businesses. He has been associated with life insurance companies, uh, Mo Moni and New England companies offering insurance benefits again to individuals and companies. He was a president of a mortgage banking company and associated with prominent banks such as City National. Uh he's become he became knowledgeable about the long-term care benefits because his father, who was a judge in Los Angeles, needed care several times in his career. And his mother, an estate planning attorney, lived to be 103. So he recognized the need to own an LTC plan and she used the benefits for 18 years. He has also been recognized on TV on Moving America Forward with Doug Lewin and William Shatner. And he's also appeared on numerous podcasts discussing the long-term care insurance and other financial topics. So thank you, Raymond, for joining us here on Patty's Place.

SPEAKER_00:
1:38

Lisa, it's a pleasure that uh you've invited me to be a guest on your podcast. I'm honored.

SPEAKER_01:
1:44

Uh well, I'm glad you're here because this is actually a very good topic. So can you tell us what exactly is long-term care insurance?

SPEAKER_00:
1:54

I've asked myself that question many times. What is long-term care insurance? Let me start off with a couple of uh uh things. Caregiving in America is in a crisis, and you don't want to be poor or not have uh available assets and need caregiving. Now, why am I saying that? It sounds like you know, I'm just trying to be uh doom and gloom. What I really want to get people to uh uh is to be motivated to say, I've got to do something long before I need uh caregiving. So what is long-term care insurance? Long-term care insurance is part of financial planning and something that you know uh uh some uh uh wealth advisors and financial planners advocate, some don't, or um, but it isn't as advocated as much as it should be. But why? Well, the reason is is because um it's you know, they always talk, you know, have the thing about death and taxes. One of the other things that's almost guaranteed is you're probably going to need caregiving. What's caregiving? Think of yourself when you were when you were little, your parents uh took care of you. They to uh and uh and as you grew up, then you became more independent. And then as you uh age, uh other things happen. Uh sometimes you uh have an illness, sometimes you have an accident, or you could have early stage cognitive. So caregiving benefits, long-term care insurance benefits, is a form of health insurance, it but it doesn't pay for uh your doctor, uh doctor visits or uh um uh uh diagnostics or hospital care. It pays for caregiving services. And what that means is it's caregiving services because it's not that you have some medical issue, it's what has the medical issue done to you that you need caregiving. And the typical definitions are eating, bathing, uh, uh dressing, transferring, um, or you have cognitive issues. In other words, it's what has it done to you. For example, supposing uh uh you hurt yourself, okay, you hurt yourself, but uh um and you're in pain or or you have uh uh bandages or you need uh crutches, but supposing it's um a situation where you can't uh you need somebody to help you uh get up in the morning or bathe or dress or uh uh or to drive you someplace, that's where the this type of insurance pays either a family member or a friend, if it depending on the policy, or for professional licensed caregiving services. Um, and depending on the situation, you know, if you need to be in a care uh center and there is a nursing home, uh assisted living, cognitive living. Um, and you know, I'm going on and on, but what I want to uh emphasize is most people want to be at home. They don't want to be in a care center for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is you're with other people. The best care is uh uh where you live if you're set uh if you um are at home and you have people that can take care of you because you know your surroundings. And the other reason is there's an obvious thing. The ratio of caregiving if you're at home is one to one or one to two, one to three, uh, if you have enough people that like you. Um if you are in a care center, you know, it might be uh uh one to 10, one to 20, you know, who knows what the ratio is. And most Americans are impatient, they don't want to wait around for someone to do something. Um, and so this is where um Americans or people, people like choice. And one of the things that people don't want to do is uh uh if if they don't have to, is they don't want to rely solely on their own assets. And they don't want certainly don't uh feel that they want to rely on social services for all the reasons, you know, of uh, you know, they may feel it's bureaucracy or it's tell somebody saying uh, you know, it's like in the thing, you know, uh uh uh my social services, my rules. And so these are things that people uh, you know, if you have a plan and you and you can fund it, and it's and it's probably going to happen, then you have uh you're gonna you're gonna emotionally your family is emotionally and physically and financially gonna feel better. And so is uh the uh the person that needs caregiving. And there's something else that sometimes I don't bring up as much as I should is that when you're not feeling well or you have you know a severe you know uh uh issue, uh you you feel vulnerable. And I've had you know uh some uh a couple times some severe uh medical issues. I had a couple of heart attacks, I had a severe hernia uh uh situation, and you know, my parents' uh uh lives, they had some uh very stressful um uh um uh a car accident, heart attack, long long term, and it makes you feel vulnerable. And that's a bad place to be, you know, when you're feeling vulnerable and you have all the other worries and the people around you uh uh are are worrying. So what I do is I'm not gonna make you better, and I'm not gonna maybe I may not even make you happier. But what I but what but I can promise, what I can promise, uh, and I'm not even running for office, is I I will promise you that you'll have, you know, if you have the appropriate plan, it will provide sufficient money so that you can make those caregiving choices.

SPEAKER_01:
7:45

So uh what is the difference then between uh your regular health insurance and say Medicare with long-term care insurance? Because people might be like, okay, but why do I need this in addition to that?

SPEAKER_00:
8:00

That's a great question. Health insurance pays for health insurance. Medicare is is A and B or the supplementaries pay for the same thing that uh your company health care plans or your private health care plans. Uh they all do they all they all do the same thing. Um the but here's the difference. Neither health plan, whether it's a private health plan or Medicare uh plan, even even if you have a Medicare Advantage or supplementary plan, it will pay for some care services for short term. For example, uh supposing you have an accident or you have a heart attack or stroke, um, and uh uh uh you're in the hospital, and maybe you even spend some time in a uh care for uh uh facility to be rehabilitated. It will pay uh the first 10 days full amount, anyway, uh up to uh up to up to 100 days. After that, you're up and out. Um and uh uh uh but some of that you might have to uh uh do a copay. Whether you're at home or you're in a care service uh facility, Medicare doesn't pay for that, not for the long term. That's why they call it long term. It will pay for short term. Let's say you have a medical procedure, uh, Medicare, um, not your health insurance, but Medicare uh uh will pay for short term period of time um um uh you know for recovery. Let me say it that way. It'll pay for recovery. Long-term care insurance, you might recover. You might. Right. And and that's fine, you know. Uh, but if you don't, the long-term care plan will will carry on. Medicare won't.

SPEAKER_01:
9:44

Okay. So here's a question, because my dad and I ran into this with my mom. So when, you know, she when she got diagnosed, they the doctors and everything told us right away she was unfortunately she didn't get diagnosed until she was in till she was moderate to severe dementia. And the doctors and the nurses all told us there was no way we were gonna be able to take care of her uh at home by ourselves, you know. So we were gonna have to put her in medical care. Because because she was so mobile and she was already so severe, there was no way just he and I could take care of her, you know. So we had to put her where she was safe because she got out a couple times out of my house with it. She escaped, huh? Yeah, yeah, she did. And she she was very she was very mobile considering um even the hospice nurse had said she was highly unusual for the severity of her dementia that she could still walk without a walker or any assistant devices to the very end. So my dad and I didn't even realize about long-term care insurance until we had to start looking for a place, a memory care facility. And at that point, there was no way he could get the long-term care insurance. So what when is a good time to get it? And like I mean, it's kind of like what are the odds that somebody might need might need it? And when should you get it? Because you can't if you when you need it, it's way too expensive and you can't use it. So you have to get it ahead of time, right?

SPEAKER_00:
11:15

That's right. Um a plug for me is that um if you go to my website www.levineltcinsk.com and you look in the upper left, uh, you could there is a it's it's an uh um artificial intelligence uh um uh thing. You can put in your information about your lifestyle, and then it will tell you your likelihood of you know how long you live, and then it will get into a number of other things of how you know what the cost of long-term care insurance would be in 2026 or 2046 or 2056 to sort of give you an idea of you know what you think your might uh your longevity um might be based on your lifestyle. Um, so that'll sort of give you an, you know, g uh give you an idea of uh, you know, uh uh when the likelihood is of you needing caregiving. Now, uh uh the simple answer to say when you should get it, it's the same, it is almost uh the same thing as you know, when should you start retirement? Today, yes, yeah. That's true. You know, what uh uh uh when should you have uh good eating habits today? You know, uh uh you know, give up the potato chips, uh, have them every once in a while. Look, I love potato chips, right? Um, but I and I'm a recovering blubber person. Uh if you want I've got I've got uh last uh a year and a half ago I was 245, I'm now 170. Oh, well good for you.

SPEAKER_01:
12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:
12:38

Yeah. So talk so you know, so when should you begin uh to think about it today? Uh why? Because uh uh there there are three factors that I believe are important, or I mean, some of it uh is part of the um uh getting your long-term care benefits. One is your health. It's all done by health assessment. Uh and so the better health you are, you don't need to be perfect. You don't need to be perfect. Uh, but if you have, you know, uh if you do have some chronic, if you have a neurological disease, you've been diagnosed, or you have, you know, severe heart or diabetes, there's some things that, you know, are more complicated. However, uh, there are still plans, depending on the state you live, that you can still get a plan. We can have that conversation, you know, and or if you have assets not needed for retirement, there are plans where you can just transfer the assets and leverage it. What do I mean by leverage? Leverage means uh you put uh something in and you get something and that you have uh uh it multiplies. So for example, you could uh if you have a um annuity or you have uh a cash value life insurance, or you have you know some other uh asset that you can convert to cash, let's say you put in 100,000, you would then have three, two, three hundred thousand in benefits, and you don't need to even have any health just uh uh because you're transferring it to a long-term care annuity. So there are there are ways if you that uh that can be done. Um, but um uh the set the second part is uh that I uh is it's your health and your age. Why? There it's the same with uh uh retirement planning or any kind of planning is that um the uh the sooner you do it, the younger you are. Uh usually you'll have a cost of living uh writer as part of your plan where the plan grows and there's a monthly benefit. Let's say you start off with 4,000, that you know, by the time you need it might be eight or nine thousand. So you uh you you're giving it time and the premiums are there uh uh the uh the premiums are a lot less. You know, it's sort of like buying a car. When do you buy a car at the end of the month or at the end of the year? Right. Uh that you'll save some money. So uh, or you know, you go to Costco, when do you get the best deals or you know, when's the most available early in the morning? So and the third and the third third thing that I also say, you know, ask people is what do you want your plan to do? Because that's also important too, because people say, well, I don't want to spend a lot on it, I don't want the uh the question last is, what do you want your plan to do? Um, you know, if and if and whatever it is you decide to do, whatever it is you tell me to do, even if I might say, look, you know, let me make some suggestions, that, you know, uh, those are decisions you have to live with. If you say, you know, I want the minimum, you know, and that's always the thing, you know, I I always say with car insurance, uh uh when you buy car insurance or home insurance, you want uh you want a high deductible. But then when you need it, then you want that, you know, then you want then you want a low deductible. So you don't, I don't want to give people, you know, uh buyers remorse or to say I should have. It's you know, uh when you have a conversation with uh Raymond, it's we'll have a conversation, and whatever it is you decide to do, then I'll I'll do in a summary to say, you know, we talked about this, you said this, so that you know, uh it doesn't come back to me, say, well, why didn't you do this or why is it this? Um, you know, some people make decisions, and he here's the yeah, it's not a downside, but it is a buying a long-term care plan is not there's nothing fun about it. No, not at all. You you go and you buy a car, you go to have a nice dinner, you go on vacation. That's fun. Uh, but doing this, uh, if you do it right, it may be a uh uh uh uh once or twice, meaning you buy it, maybe you need you know uh uh um something extra, you know, uh uh something extra. But once it's done, it's done. It's like doing your you know estate plan. You do whatever you do you do it every once in a while. Uh you check on your retirement plan every once in a while. And it's the long term. You know, I'm hoping the people that you know are clients of mine that are maybe in the 30s, 40s, 50s, I hope they don't need it for 30 years. And that's a lot, you know, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_01:
16:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:
16:58

Um, and and so as I say, you know, you uh you're buying the future, and you know, and a lot of people don't want to buy the future. They want to buy right now, or they want, you know, they want the fun or the the benefit um right now. But some things it's better better to plan so that you get something in the future. Look, uh we all spent uh uh more or less uh uh 12 years uh uh uh um uh in graduating from high school, then you know, depending what you did, whether you went to technical school or college or something, that you know, sometimes you know, the the big payoff, you know, might not come for 15 or 20 years, but you got to do all the other things in advance before you get, you know, the benefits.

SPEAKER_01:
17:38

Right. And I don't think a lot of people realize how much it costs to take care of somebody. Example, with my mom, my dad spent um like seven thousand dollars a month for her to be in memory care, and she was in it for three and a half years. You know, people don't realize how much that costs. Now there are, you know, Medicaid homes and things like that. He we were able to, she was able to be in a private home like that, but it it was it was crazy the prices of what it costs for that. I mean, and that was out without any insurance. So if we would have had long-term care insurance, it might have helped him a little bit financially.

SPEAKER_00:
18:19

Well, it would have helped it it would it would have helped immeasurably if not the least of which, depending on where you got the 7,000. If it was from income, you know, retirement income, uh uh you paid taxes on it. If you want a long-term care plan, here it here uh uh uh here's here's the thing is uh makes it fun to own if you want to have an immediate thing benefit. If you want a long-term care plan, it's not taxable. If you get$7,000 a month, it's not taxable. You don't have to listen in your tax on your tax return uh as as income. So that's$7,000 that you were you were uh uh paying, you could either re have reinvested, you could do you you could uh you could have done something else uh to have it to have it grow. But if you so it's a good if we're not it it's a good tax planning advice uh uh um um uh uh device. Also, if you own a business, you can deduct uh a good portion of the premiums. And also let me bring up for is that you know you say about when to buy, one of the other things that you know uh um uh is to encourage people if they're in a company is to is uh to ask them if they have a company plan. And if they don't, say, you know, uh uh uh why don't you talk to Raymond or or you know somebody um uh or some some brokers know about it or they'll say uh well, you know, it's awful. But when when uh uh ask within the company, you know, look, are have people left because they have to take care of people? Or uh uh or the owners or the managers, you know, they've been in caregiving situations where their assignments and somebody says, you know, where's this? Oh, they're they're they're uh their way taking care of a parent, and here they have, you know, um job assignments. So it and here, but here's the benefit if uh a company has a plan is especially for the younger people, they might own a plan and let's say they have a 5% cost of living writer. And if they don't need it for 50 years, even if the even if it's 2,000 a month, do you realize you know what uh a$2,000 uh uh dollar a month benefit with 5%, you know, in f in 50 years what it would be, they might never have to have a plan. The other benefit is uh some of the uh some of these uh plans uh even if you have lousy health even if you have no health you'll still uh you'll still um uh if it's uh uh a a plan that doesn't ask for any health assessment you'll get you you you will get covered oh so what would be some of the main factors that might affect a policy premium for a person well one is age okay that's you know that's the uh that's the obvious it's again it's like retirement uh you don't you don't want to you don't want to start retire uh uh uh uh saving for retirement at 64. Exactly right um unless you know unless you're expecting a big inheritance or something well yeah that'd be nice yeah yeah but you gotta you got you got you gotta get you gotta give it you gotta give it time right but the best you know but the early you know the the younger you are uh the premiums are a lot less they're a lot less and it gives you time to build you know to uh to build up your plan on the on the reverse the older you are you know the older you know the the closer you are that you might need uh you might need caregiving and you have to buy uh a bigger plan because you need you want uh more in monthly benefits you haven't given it time so those two factors alone uh uh will make the premium more expensive and hopefully you're in uh uh reasonably good health at least you can get standard now if you're really good health you you can get even uh pre uh um when I say substandard I'm what I what I really mean is that you the uh that you uh um that you you can get a pr uh premium that's less because you're in in uh in better health and so actually uh actually it's not actually it's really morbidity you're more likely uh uh uh you're more likely uh to to not need caregiving sooner and you're probably gonna live longer so they'll give you a discount.

SPEAKER_01:
22:15

Oh okay so what are some alternatives if someone can't afford or doesn't qualify for the traditional long-term care insurance what can they do?

SPEAKER_00:
22:24

Interesting you have okay if you have this also something I've heard if you have family and they like you know you can ask people you can say look you know uh I'm on a fixed income you know could you help contribute? So uh and from the family point of view it's a good if that's a good investment where you know if if the family you know contributes to the premium you know then then uh uh mom and dad or the step people whatever uh uh that they have a plan so that they can continue on with their uh uh lives and careers and you know save for retirement and do all the other things they want to do so families can can contribute. Now if if if if your family doesn't like you, you don't have any family, you don't want to ask them, you feel embarrassed, depending on the state, there uh uh there are more and more there's Aetna, there's uh uh uh Wellaby and uh uh um um um can't think of the other one as a very very uh omniflex there they these are short-term plans uh they can be one or two years but depending on how you do it you can even extend it out and the premiums are really reasonable I mean you can get uh just a phenomenal plan for like$125 a month and it it it can be as good or better than a regular long-term care plan. Um and or another one you can uh get is called true freedom it's$95 a month it's it it has uh uh four levels it's like Costco you know you have the basic and then you you have the different levels but what you it's a subscription plan actually something else you don't need any help so long as you don't need immediate caregiving you're gonna want a true freedom plan and it's and it pays for home care. It'll either pay uh uh uh reimbursement for a uh licensed care center or if it's off hours uh it will reimburse family or friends um to pa uh to help you with your care you know after five o'clock um and you what you're doing is you're buying hours it's like it the example would be Costco or Walmart you know uh a uh some subscription plan it's a subscription plan it's really not a health plan it's a subscription plan okay and it will it will it will pay only for home care uh benefits but it will do you know most of the things that a regular long-term care plan will uh uh provide okay well those are all good alternatives so if somebody is interested in this what would be the best thing for them to do I mean obviously because you said it varies a little bit by state so where would be the best place for someone to start well you start in the state that you uh uh you are and if you want to contact me uh it's Raymond Wine 253 432 uh 9491 or 253 2756091 I sound like an Earl Scheibe uh commercial yeah um the um uh depending on the state you know you can call me and if I'm not licensed I'm licensed in most western states but if if I'm not licensed um uh there then uh you know you can call me and I'll uh uh refer uh somebody that's really good in uh this uh they may either be in uh uh uh what are you know your state or um um or or or they have like me a lot of non-resident licenses um uh to practice in uh various states. So you know if you want to call me and just and uh you know tell me the situation I'll say look you know I think this person would be um good for you. Now if it if it's for a company then I can deal I can deal in any state. But if it's as if it's an individual or family they can uh they can call me and I can uh you know depending on the state I'll I know I know somebody or I can find somebody that's very good uh to consult with them.

SPEAKER_01:
26:08

Okay. So and you also have uh a website too right it's Raymond Levine Levineofficial dot com and it has a lot of that information on there as well too is that correct that's right and my website is www dot L A V I-N-E L T C I N S dot combine ltcin s dot com. Okay so yeah so that way people can check that out in that because long-term care insurance is something that you don't think about till you need it but then it's too late so it's always something to think ahead of time because you you never know when you're gonna have to you'll be in that caregiving situation whether you're the caregiver or somebody's taking care of you.

SPEAKER_00:
26:49

So it's definitely something to think about I I you would agree I'm sure I'm an advocate of it because uh just like you you've been personally involved you know what the costs are so if you know what the costs are uh then you say if it happened uh to my parent or to my mother or will happen to my father it's gonna it may happen to me so what am I gonna do about it? And the way to do about it is that uh um you know the the the the ultimate thing is that you have a long-term care plan but if you if you if you feel that you have enough money or enough family and you really don't want to do it there's nothing I can say that will say you know say you know buy a plan. Right but alternative it it it is a it is a great investment. And you may say well it's insurance it's an investment. When you buy life insurance you know do you know I mean if you buy uh um whole life insurance it uh it's insurance I'm not gonna do but it's the it's an asset if you uh uh when you when you're listing your assets and you own um uh cash value uh life it's an asset um if you own a hybrid plan long-term care plan it's you you can let you can list it as an asset it's so it's an asset so you could and also if you have uh uh some side business you know you make uh pottery or you make whatever it is you do uh and you have an LLC you can deduct some of the premiums you can deduct a premium and when you get as I said pre earlier if when you need the plan if there there are no taxes. Okay well this this has been very informative very very informative so thank you for joining us here today uh Raymond uh I really appreciate it I think you gave our listeners a lot of good information well thank you for having me Lisa it's been fun yes definitely uh I I've learned a lot myself today so so you explained it because sometimes I get a little overwhelmed with all the insurance so it made more sense to me now so well if if you talk to me or you talk the the the thing that uh I wish people would say is um you know I don't want to be overwhelmed and I understand that because I don't like to be overwhelmed the way I do it is you know I I will have the conversation I I I will explain um I you know they they often say you know I'm gonna educate and I think we sort of overdo that you know we'll have we'll we we will share information so you know by the time you know you either decide you know uh that you're gonna do something that you will feel comfortable about the process and you'll feel comfortable to say uh if I did it I did the right thing and I and I and I don't and I and I don't have I do not have any remorse.

SPEAKER_01:
29:24

Yes exactly so well thank you again for joining us so hopefully um you've uh our audience has learned some good information about long-term care insurance so hopefully they've enjoyed their cup of tea or their cup of coffee or their glass of wine and hopefully you all juice yes or juice yes for it and I'll have all the information on uh how they can get hold of you as well on the website so uh hopefully everyone will join us again for another edition of Patty's Place