Cognitive Stimulation Therapy for Early Dementia Support-Interview with Jill Aitken

Welcome And Why This Exists

SPEAKER_01
0:09

Welcome
to
Patty's
Place,
a
place
where
we're
going
to
talk
about
grief,
dementia,
and
caregiving.
I'm
your
host,
Lisa.
I
named
this
podcast
in
honor
of
my
mom,
Pat,
who
passed
away
from
dementia
about
two
and
a
half
years
ago.
So
hopefully
I
want
this
place
to
be
a
place
where
you
don't
feel
alone
and
you
can
find
some
good
resources
to
help
you
through
this
difficult
time.
So
grab
your
cup
of
coffee,
your
cup
of
tea,
or
if
you're
having
that
really
bad
day,
your
glass
of
wine,
and
let's
get
talking.
Today
I'm
really
excited.
Uh
our
guest
is
Jill
Agin.
She's
the
founder
of
Four
Better
Minds
and
a
passionate
advocate
for
helping
people
protect
and
improve
brain
health
as
they
age.
She
specializes
in
CST,
which
is
cognitive
stimulation
therapy.
It's
an
evidence-based
non-drug
approach
shown
to
improve
cognitive
confidence,
communication,
and
quality
of
life
for
people
living
with
mild
cognitive
impairment
and
early
stage
dementia.
Welcome,
Jill.

SPEAKER_00
1:03

Thank
you.
Thank
you.
It's
nice
to
be
here.

SPEAKER_01
1:06

Yes,
I'm
very
excited
about
this
because
brain
health
is
very
important.
Very,
very
important.
So
just
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
yourself.
How'd
you
get
into
interested
in
working
with
this
particular
field?

Jill’s Path Into Dementia Care

SPEAKER_00
1:20

Well,
I've
worked
with
people
living
with
dementia
now
for
over
10
years.
And
I
used
to
own
a
home
health
care
business
where
I
placed
healthcare
aides
and
and
nurses
in
people's
homes.
So
kind
of
one-on-one
care.
And
we
were
always
looking
for
innovative
solutions.
We're
always
looking
for,
you
know,
tips
and
new
ways
to
give
really
good
care.
And
in
about
2015,
I
was
introduced
to
CST.
I
think
I
discovered
it
at
a
conference
and
I
was
really
taken
by
it.
And
uh
I
always
kept
it
in
mind
as
something
I
wanted
to
do.
And
then
I
tried
it
out
eventually.
And
then
I
stopped
with
my
home
care
business
in
2022
and
decided
to
do
CST
full-time.
I
just
thought
it
was
such
a
compelling
service.
It
is
evidence-based,
like
you
said.
So
what
that
means
for
people
who
don't
know,
it
means
it's
scientifically
proven.
So
the
program
that
I
use
has
been
around
for
25
years
and
it
is
really
well
trialed.
And
um
the
evidence
for
it,
for
it
to
improve
people's
cognition
is
is
really
there.
And
I
thought
it
was
so
compelling,
and
it's
just
a
wonderful
program.

SPEAKER_01
2:42

So
and
as
you've
obviously
you
work
with
the
older
adults,
and
we
always
face
that,
you
know,
everyone
always
is
worried
the
minute
they
forget
something
like,
oh
God,
it's
dementia.
Um
but
you
also
you
you
said
you
work
with
healthy
seniors
who
want
to
stay
sharp.
So
what
have
you
learned
about
aging
that
most
people
misunderstand?

Aging Well Is An Active Choice

SPEAKER_00
3:02

I
think
aging
in
general
that
most
people
understand
is
that
in
order
to
age
well,
it's
an
active
process.
So
we
really
need
to
work
hard
at
it.
And
uh
if
we
take
it
passively
and
just
allow
it
to
happen,
we're
probably
not
going
to
age
as
well
as
we
hoped.

SPEAKER_01
3:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00
3:24

So
I
think
in
in
aging
well,
we
really
need
to
look
at
our
diet
and
our
exercise
levels.

SPEAKER_01
3:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00
3:33

You
know,
there
are
some
really
basic
things.
We
have
to
be
very
intentional
about
aging
well
and
you
know,
keep
our
muscle
mass,
keep
exercising,
and
uh
eat
a
good
diet.
And
I
I
think
that's
the
most
misunderstood
thing.
I
honestly
do,
that
uh
we
we
really
need
to
come
together
and
and
understand
that
we
have
to
do
a
lot
of
things
for
ourselves.
It's
going
to
be
intentional
and
it's
going
to
take
a
lot
of
energy
and
time,
and
we
need
to
invest
in
our
own
health
in
order
to
age
well.

SPEAKER_01
4:08

Okay.
So,

Why CST Is Still Underknown

SPEAKER_01
4:11

what
would
why
do
you
think
that
the
cognitive
stimulation
therapy
is
still
not
widely
known?

SPEAKER_00
4:18

Well,
that's
a
good
question.
And
I
often,
you
know,
ever
since
I
started
with
this,
I
have
thought
about
that.
Why
is
this
not
widely
known?
I
think
from
the
practical
approach
from
this
is
that
it
was
created
by
academics
at
the
University
of
College
of
London
in
England.
And
so
academics
don't
really
have
a
marketing
budget.
This
is
true.
Right.
And
so
they
are
just
producing
papers
and
and
they
do
have
conferences,
but
they
are
not,
you
know,
they
don't
have
money
to
advertise
it
to
the
wider
society.
And
I
often
think,
let's
just
say
if
it
was
a
if
it
was
a
service
that
was
being
delivered
maybe
by
a
large
pharmaceutical
company,
we'd
all
probably
know
about
it
because
they
do
have
the
budget
to
advertise
and
let
people
know.
And
then
I
think
maybe
just
uh,
you
know,
on
the
ground
level,
it's
possible
that
because
it's
a
non-pharmacological
approach,
that
there
are,
you
know,
that
it
it
may
get
mixed
in
or
lost
in
the
mix
of
non-pharmacological
approaches
that
um
that
aren't
effective.
And
then
maybe,
you
know,
at
least
um
in
some
areas
there
would
be
things
like
staffing
constraints.
Like
I
know
that
I
know
some
OTs
that
know
about
CST,
but
they
can't
do
it
in
their
workplace.

What Cognitive Stimulation Therapy Is

SPEAKER_01
5:42

So
for
those
of
us
who
aren't
familiar
with
it,
what
exactly
is
CST?

SPEAKER_00
5:48

Good.
So
cognitive
stimulation
therapy.
So
it's
a
program
that
was
created
for
people
with
mild
cognitive
impairment
or
early
to
mid-stage
dementia.
Okay.
So
it
was
created
to
relieve
the
symptoms
of
so
mild
cognitive
impairment
and
early
dementia.
And
what
the
program
looks
like,
um,
like
I
said,
it's
been
trialed
a
lot,
is
that
it
is
seven
weeks.
Okay.
And
um
you
meet
with
a
facilitator,
so
like
myself,
twice
a
week.
And
the
the
facilitator
walks
the
person
through
different
activities
that
will
stimulate
their
mind.
So
stimulate
their
thinking.
The
basis
of
the
therapy
is
to
get
the
person
to
generate
ideas
and
come
up
with
opinions
and
have
their
minds
stimulated.
So
it's
a
really
wonderful
program
in
that
it's
there's
no
right
or
wrong
answer,
and
it's
not
testing
and
it's
not
quizzing.
Okay.
And
instead,
it's
generating
ideas
and
generating
opinions
and
in
in
a
very
safe
space
with
uh
with
an
effective
listener.

SPEAKER_01
7:02

So
it's
kind
of
like
you're
having
a
conversation
with
the
person.

SPEAKER_00
7:05

Absolutely.
It's
a
conversation-based
therapy.

SPEAKER_01
7:09

And
that
that
doesn't
sound
scary
either,
you
know,
because
I
know
with
my
mom's
particular
case,
um,
she
refused
to
get
diagnosed.
Uh,
she,
you
know,
I
knew
that
she
had
some
issues
and
stuff,
and
she
just
she
would
not
go,
she
wouldn't
even
take
the
little
test,
you
know,
like
the
10
question
test.
She
just
wouldn't
answer
the
doctor
um
with
it
till
it
got
to
be,
you
know,
too
far
along.
So
this
could
be
something
for
somebody
that
if
they
notice,
like
you
said,
it's
mild,
that
they
might
be
able
to
help
them.
Granted,
there's
no
cure
for
dementia,
but
might
help
them
have
a
little
bit
more
elusive
moments
longer.

SPEAKER_00
7:49

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
It
also
helps
with,
so
the
things
that
it
has
been
proven
to
help
with
are,
you
know,
memory,
language
fluency,
word
finding,
executive
function,
okay,
following
directions.
Another
big
one
is
uh
oral
comprehension.
So
I
don't
know
if
you've
ever
noticed
sometimes
when
you're
speaking
to
older
people
that
they
don't
have
hearing
impairments,
so
they
can
hear,
but
they
might
ask
you
a
couple
of
times
for
you
to
repeat
yourself.
So
they
didn't
quite
get
it.
So
that
it
really
helps
with
that
as
well.
It
really
helps
with
confidence
with
people
speaking.
And
I
see
in
the
first
couple
of
sessions,
so
like
if
the
program
is
seven
weeks
and
we
meet
uh
twice
a
week,
so
it's
kind
of
14
sessions,
and
I
can
really
see
with
people
who
aren't
used
to
speaking,
people
aren't
used
to
having
an
engaging
conversation,
or
for
people
who,
you
know,
just
are
really
understimulated
and
no
one
has
ever
asked
them
a
question
in
a
long
time,
it
takes
them
a
couple
sessions.
I
can
really
see
their
confidence
building
in
it
takes
them
a
couple
of
sessions
in
order
to
organize
their
thoughts
and
come
up
with
a
coherent
answer.
And
uh,
even
in
the
first
two
sessions,
uh,
people
will
pause
for
a
long
time,
just
coming
up
with,
you
know,
what
do
I
actually
think
about
this
topic?
Okay,
you
know,
the
facilitator
is
asking
me
a
question.
I
could
be
asking,
say,
about
um,
you
know,
just
about
food
or
about
using
money
or
about,
and
I'll
just
say,
so
what
do
you
think
of
that?

SPEAKER_01
9:29

So
this
is
even
good
for
somebody
who
um
may
not
necessarily
have
the
mild
cognitive
impairment,
but
just
maybe
for
older
people.
Because
they
always
say
that
uh
socialization
is
very
important
to
aging
as
well,
too,
and
for
uh
cognitive
abilities
for
it.
So
that
could
help
with
them
uh
if
they're
just
like
maybe
feeling
mentally
slower
or
less
engaged
or,
like
you
said,
understimulated.

SPEAKER_00
9:55

Absolutely.
So
even
though
this
program
was
created
for
people
with
MCI
and
early
dementia,
they
trialed
it
also
with
people
who
did
not
have
cognitive
decline
and
they
had
incredible
improvements.
Because
I
think
if
you
don't
have
cognitive
decline,
uh
your
brain
is
still
working
normally
or
at
least
still
working
really
well.
And
you
know,
it
has
that
plasticity,
that
ability
to
change
and
respond
to
a
therapy.
So
people
have
had
really
uh
wonderful
improvements
in
their
cognition.
And
they
really
enjoy
it
as
well.
I
mean,
someone
who
doesn't
have
cognitive
decline
would
then
be
able
to
just
really
pull
back
on
memories
and
their
former
experiences
in,
you
know,
in
answering
the
questions.

SPEAKER_01
10:47

So,

Everyday Mental Work That Counts

SPEAKER_01
10:48

why
do
you
think
so
many
people
underestimate
the
power
of
structured
mental
stimulation?

SPEAKER_00
10:54

Well,
that's
also
uh
really
good
to
ponder.
I
think
possibly
one
because
we
don't
know.
You
know,
we're
just
coming
up
with
this
now,
really,
about
uh,
you
know,
in
the
last
five
or
six
years,
there's
been
just
so
much
research
published
on
dementia
and
how
to
prevent
it
and
how
to
slow
it.
And
we're
now
coming
to
see,
we're
only
really
now
coming
to
see
that
cognitive
stimulation
or
in
exercising
our
minds
is
just
as
important
or
more
than
exercising
their
bodies.
So
that's
one
thing.
We're
just
starting
to
talk
about
it,
but
also
to
maybe
because
you
know,
we're
still
in
a
society
where
we
kind
of
underestimate
structured
physical
exercise,
right?
So
if
you
right,
if
you
make
an
appointment,
if
you
you
know,
go
all
in
and
hire
a
personal
trainer
that's
going
to
turn
up
or
you're
going
to
have
an
appointment
with
them.
You
know,
there's
the
accountability
there
of
there's
a
human
being
waiting
for
me.
So
I'm
going
to
turn
up
at
the
appointment.
And
then
that
personal
trainer
has,
you
know,
probably
has
an
hour
of
planned
activities
and
exercises
for
the
person.
And
they're
going
to
stick
to
it
and
they're
going
to
finish
it.
They're
going
to
follow
through
and
they're
going
to
finish
it.
And
that's
the
same
thing
with
me
with
cognitive
stimulation
therapy.
So
when
someone
makes
an
appointment
with
me,
I
have,
I
have
an
hour
of
planned
activities
and
they're
going
to
turn
up,
and
I'm
going
to
turn
up,
and
we're
going
to
follow
through
and
do
the
full
hour,
and
it's
going
to
be
great.
So
it's,
I
think
it's
really
rare
when
you
think
of
cognitive
engagement
or
you
think
about,
you
know,
being
interested
in
something
and
exercising
your
mind,
you
know,
how
how
often
do
we
do
that,
even
in
everyday
life,
say
for
more
than
three
or
four
minutes?

SPEAKER_01
12:49

That's
true.
So
what
would
be
some
examples,
something
something
simple
from
I
mean,
I
I
like
with
reading,
is
that
a
good
one,
or
doing
puzzles
or
those
types
of
things?

SPEAKER_00
13:03

It
is.
And
so
for
reading
in
particular,
uh,
researchers
kind
of
quantify
it
in
different
ways.
They
say
like
reading
a
novel
is
different
reading
than
say
reading
a
magazine
or
reading
a
pamphlet,
you
know.
So
reading
a
novel.
I
often
ask
people,
so
if
you
were
to
read
a
chapter
of
a
novel
and
you
knew
that
after
you
read
that
chapter,
you
had
to
explain
it
to
someone
else.
How
carefully
would
you
read
that
chapter?
So
you
know,
reading,
reading
can
be
on
different
levels,
right?
But
definitely
playing
chess,
playing
checkers,
uh,
you
know,
board
games,
they're
really
good.
Um,
there's
a
whole
list
of
things
that
we
can
do.
Even
uh,
I
know
I
remember
seeing
on
the
list
that
when
we're
out
driving
and
navigating
in
unfamiliar
areas,
that
is
considered
cognitive
engagement
or
going
out
and
walking
in
unfamiliar
areas,
right?
You're
just
you're
more
engaged,
you're
more
alert,
you're
thinking
about
where
you're
going.

SPEAKER_01
14:04

That's
true.
Yeah,
because
when
you
your
brain,
it's
muscle
memory
when
you
drive
the
same
places
all
the
time.
But
when
you
have
to
go
somewhere
different,
you're
like
on
high
alert,
like,
wait,
where's
my
exit?
Where's
this?
Where's
that?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00
14:15

You
are,
you
need
a
nap
afterward.

SPEAKER_01
14:17

Yeah,
that's
the
way
I'm
and
then
you
like
turn
down
the
radio
because
you're
like,
you
think
that'll
help
you,
you
know.
I
think
it's
more
on
the
concentration
uh
with
that.

What Happens In A CST Session

SPEAKER_01
14:26

So,
what
does
happen
during
a
CST
session
and
like
that
can
create
the
measurable
cognitive
benefits?

SPEAKER_00
14:33

Yes.
So,
you
know,
the
primary
principle,
of
course,
is
stimulating
someone's
mind.
So
the
facilitator
has
activities
and
has
ideas,
so
all
ready
to
go.
So
every
session
has
a
different
topic,
kind
of
doing
similar
exercises
within
those
topics.
So
one
session
is
on
food,
one
session
is
on
art,
one
session
on
music,
and
then
we
have
a
creativity
session.
So
it
changes
up
each
time.
And
within
that,
um,
like
the
first
thing
we
do
in
every
session,
I
pull
a
news
article
out.
So
that's
a
big
part
of
orientation
to
what's
going
on
in
the
world
right
now.
And
I
don't
use
the
traumatic
news,
I
uh
often
pull
from
the
good
news
network,
but
uh
we
will
read
through
a
very
short
news
article
and
I
will
ask
the
person,
so
what
do
you
think
about
this?
And
then
if
it's
just
say
something
like
a
decision
from
the
courts
or
something,
I
will
ask,
so
if
you
were
the
judge
in
this
case,
how
would
you
have
uh
delivered
the
what
would
you
have
done?
What
do
you
think?
You
know,
do
you
think
this
is
fair
or
unfair?
So
I'm
doing
things
to
stimulate
people's
minds,
and
I'm
asking
their
opinions
and
I'm
asking
them
to
come
up
with
ideas.

SPEAKER_01
15:55

So
that's
actually,
I
mean,
so
that's
something
easy
that
a
caregiver
or
family
member
can
continue
on
with,
you
know,
yes.
In
in
some
ways,
like
having
that
conversation
and
actually
listening
to
them,
asking
them
questions.

SPEAKER_00
16:11

Um
yes,
and
uh
I
I
get
asked
that
all
the
time.
You
know,
what
can
we
be
doing
at
home
or
what
can
we
be
doing
throughout
the
week
between
sessions?
And
that's
one
thing
that
I
do
suggest
that
if
you
read
the
paper
or
if
you
get
the
paper,
you
can
read
through
a
couple
of
the
articles
and
discuss
them.
Ask
for
an
opinion,
you
know,
do
a
little
analysis,
ask
for
an
opinion
and
wait
for
the
opinion.
Um,
listen
to
it
and
then
reflect
back,
right?
So
really
engage
and
discuss.
So
that
is
definitely
something
that
people
can
do
at
home.

SPEAKER_01
16:47

And
I
would
say
that
patience,
because
I
know
it
myself.
Sometimes
my
dad,
I'm
like
waiting
and
I'm
like,
are
you
gonna
answer
or
are
you
gonna
keep
going
on
and
on
and
on?
And
like
sometimes
it's
easy
to
lose
patience
and
it's
hard
to
like
be
like,
okay,
you
know,
let
just
be
present
here
for
this
moment
and
listen.
Cause
they
usually,
you
know,
peop
older
people
sometimes
I
think
get
forgotten
um
in
this
in
our
society,
you
know,
and
we
forget
that
they
have
a
wealth
of
information,
a
wealth
of
history,
you
know,
they
know
a
lot
of
different
things
that
we
forget
about,
you
know,
and
um
but
sometimes
I
think
we
do
lose
patience,
myself
included,
you
know,
sometimes
you
know,
asking
questions.

SPEAKER_00
17:28

I
think
I
I
think
this
is
tricky
for
family
members.
I
really
do.
Like
uh
so
the
people
who
created
CST,
they
did
a
widespread
research
project
with
family
members
and
family
caregivers.
And
you
know
what?
It
just
didn't
work.
And
you
know
why
it
didn't
work?
Because
half
of
the
families
didn't
even
do
the
first
session.
So
it's
like,
so
number
one,
it's
like
the
family
caregivers
are
either
burned
out
or
overburdened
and
they
can't
get
around
to
doing
it.
And
number,
yeah,
it
just
that's
what
happened.
So
it's
not
like
did
it
work
or
didn't
work?
Well,
they
didn't
even
do
it
because
they're
just
kind
of
overwhelmed
themselves.
And
when
you're
talking
about
patience
there,
absolutely
there
is
just
there's
really
something
different
in
the
dynamic
within
a
family,
right?
And
so
you
do
tend
to
lose
patience
more
than
say
what
a
caregiver,
what
a
therapist
would.
Uh,
you
know,
hopefully
no
therapist
would
be
losing
patience.
I
mean,
some
of
the
things
that
a
couple
of
things
that
might
make
it
better
would
be
to
have
zero,
zero
distractions.
So
no
radio
on,
no
TV
on
in
the
background,
and
maybe
come
to
a
table,
clear
the
table,
and
and
do
it
just,
you
know,
two
people
across
across
the
table
from
each
other,
make
it
slightly
official
or
like,
okay,
now
we're
doing
something.

SPEAKER_01
19:01

I
think
too
what
uh
I
I
think
the
other
issue
is
that
I
think
as
caregivers,
it's
a
very
hard
thing
to
accept
the
dementia
diagnosis
and
know
how
to
handle
it,
you
know,
to
be
able
to
finally
be
like,
I
need
to
enter
their
world
and
stop
correcting
them.
You
know,
if
they
say
the
sky
is
green,
just
go
with
it,
you
know.
And
if
and
I
think
that's
what's
really
hard
to
get
to
that
point
um
in
doing
that.
But
it
it
helps
so
much
when
you're
able
to
get
to
that
point
with
caregiving
and
being
able
to
sit
there
and
be
in
that
moment
with
them
and
talk
with
them
with
those
different
things.
Uh
with
that.
I
found
it.

SPEAKER_00
19:47

Right,
to
see
the
change.
I
mean,
I've
even
um
sometimes
when
I'm
in
someone's
home,
I
can
kind
of
chuckle
with
a
you
know,
with
a
a
married
couple
that
have
been
married
for
over
60
years.
Like
I
just
one
gentleman
that
I
can
think
of,
you
know,
89
years
old,
and
his
wife
will
take
a
break
when
I'm
there
and
working
with
him
one-on-one.
His
wife
will
be
in
in
the
bedroom,
and
sometimes
I'll
ask
him
a
question,
he'll
say,
No,
you
know,
or
just
like,
you
know,
have
you
ever
been
to
Paris?
Or
yeah,
no,
no,
no.
And
then
I
can
hear
the
wife
calling
out,
you
have
been
30
years
ago.
Right.
So
yeah,
I
think
it's,
you
know,
it's
no
right
or
wrong
answer
for
me,
and
I'm
going
with
it,
and
I'm
doing
my
best
to
stimulate
someone
and
to
we're
just
we're
having
a
great
time
and
the
mood
is
great.
And
it
is,
I
I
think
it
is
difficult
uh
for
family
members
to
do
it.
You
you
have
to
really
know
that
uh
you're
going
into
this,
and
and
no
matter
what
is
being
said,
the
most
important
part
of
it
is
that
you
are
an
active
or
an
effective
listener,
you're
reflecting
back
and
you're
giving
the
gift
of
stimulation
and
your
time
and
attention
to
the
person.

SPEAKER_01
21:02

Yeah,
I
I
would
agree
with
that.
That
it
is
hard.
Like
I
know
it
was
harder
for
my
dad
to
get
to
that
accepting
with
that.
So,

Future-Proofing With Diet Exercise Connection

SPEAKER_01
21:11

how
would
somebody
in
their
50s
or
60s
and
they
want
to
future-proof
their
brain,
how
should
you
start?
What
can
you
do?

SPEAKER_00
21:20

Uh
well,
I
think
of
this
all
the
time,
and
I
think
about
my
own
relationship
with
food
and
exercise,
but
definitely
it
just
goes
back
to
the
same
possibly
boring
diet
and
exercise.
So,
you
know,
our
diets,
when
people
talk
about
the
standard
American
diet,
um,
we
are
eating
processed
food,
we
have
higher
sugar
and
high
grain.
And
it
is
best
that
we
reduce
that
sugar,
reduce
the
grain,
and
reduce
the
processed
food.
So
there
is
uh
a
diet
that
has
been
trialed
now.
It's
called
the
mind
diet.
So
M
IMP
and
it
is
like
a
mix
of
the
Mediterranean
diet
and
the
DASH
diet.
The
DASH
diet
was
created
to
lower
people's
blood
pressure.
So
the
MIME
diet
really
emphasizes,
you
know,
vegetables
and
fruit.
It
allows
you
to
have
whole
grains
only
and
a
limited
amount
and
very
little
processed
food
and
then
little,
you
know,
just
the
tiniest
bit
of
butter.
So
it
says
use
olive
oil
instead
of
butter.
For
me,
I
have
looked
at
all
kinds
of
approaches
to
diet.
And
it
seems
like
like
people
talk
about
the
benefits
of
keto.
And
I
think,
yes,
there
are
a
lot
of
benefits.
And
you
can
really
lower
inflammation
with
keto.
For
me,
it
is
too
strict
right
now
for
me.
I
really
love
fruit
and
I
like
vegetables.
And
so
for
the
mind
diet,
it
has
been
trialed,
it
has
been
researched.
And
it
even
moderate
adherence
to
that
eating
regime
reduces
your
risk
of
dementia
and
it
improves
your
cognition.

SPEAKER_01
23:13

And
I
think
it
I
was
gonna
say
I
believe
that
that
was
researched
uh
by
a
hospital
here
near
in
Chicago
though.
Oh
really?
Rush
University.
Yeah,
hot
medical
center
with
that.
But
and
um
I
am
familiar
with
the
mind
diet,
but
I
think
it
is
uh
we
don't
we
you
know
as
Americans
we
like
our
fast
food
and
processed
food
but
you
do
feel
better
when
you
don't
eat
as
much
with
that
you
really
do
you
know
uh
I
went
to
Ireland
like
two
years
ago
and
I
was
just
like
amazed
at
um
the
difference
in
the
food
meaning
it
was
so
good
you
know
they
had
they
have
laws
against
the
process
and
different
chemicals
in
the
food
and
it's
like
you
didn't
eat
as
much
because
it
was
all
good
food
health
you
know
um
you
know
what
I'm
trying
to
say
it
was
in
a
lot
of
whole
foods
yes
that's
the
word
I'm
looking
for
yeah
you
know
um
it
does
make
a
difference
with
it
but
it's
also
good
to
know
that
yeah
scientifically
the
mind
diet
they
have
been
able
to
show
that
it
does
decrease
the
dementia
risk
uh
with
that
do
you
think
that
cognitive
decline
is
an
inevitable
part
of
aging
or
are
there
other
ways
we
can
protect
or
strengthen
the
brain
well
in
terms
of
like
when
we
think
of
what
we
call
normal
age
related
cognitive
decline
so
this
is
something
just
kind
of
widespread
across
society
that
we
have
seen
and
we
call
it
normal.

SPEAKER_00
24:44

So
you
know
in
our
30s
our
brains
start
to
shrink
a
little
bit
every
year.
It's
a
very
uh
very
small
percentage
but
it
does
start
in
our
30s
and
then
at
about
age
65
67
then
it
starts
to
shrink
a
little
bit
more
every
year.
And
so
how
this
shrinkage
or
this
atrophy
kind
of
manifests
is
through
like
we
will
see
our
pro
our
um
information
processing
will
be
slowing
down
a
little
bit
our
word
finding
our
language
fluency
we're
not
great
at
executive
function
as
much
as
we
used
to
be
so
that's
kind
of
it
it's
not
interfering
with
our
daily
lives
but
we
can
see
that
we're
slowed
down
a
little
bit.
Maybe
other
people
can
see
it
and
uh
even
the
people
that
we
know
in
say
in
their
80s
and
90s
that
are
really
sharp,
they're
probably
not
as
sharp
as
they
were
40
years
ago.
So
there
is
some
subtle
slowing
um
now
that
is
probably
inevitable.
There
are
probably
some
people
that
are
are
really
intentional
about
their
health
and
and
can
not
slide
as
much.
But
for
dementia
of
course
it
is
not
inevitable.
We're
almost
you
know
we
almost
feel
like
we
are
uh
like
it
is
inevitable.
We
do
know
people
in
their
80s
and
90s
that
do
not
have
dementia
and
uh
I
would
hope
that
certainly
in
our
60s
and
70s
it
is
not
inevitable.
And
uh
and
the
things
that
we've
talked
about
already
are
like
the
four
lifestyle
pillars
of
brain
health
that
we
can
do
to
strengthen
ourselves
and
to
really
protect
our
minds
is
of
course
diet
and
then
exercising
our
minds
with
cognitive
stimulation
and
then
exercising
our
bodies
with
physical
exercise
and
then
social
engagement.

SPEAKER_01
26:44

And
I
think
that
all
four
of
those
are
important
but
I
think
too
sometimes
I
think
older
adults
do
feel
isolated
sometimes
and
they
don't
socialize
as
much
you
know
sometimes
it's
as
simple
as
sitting
outside
and
talking
with
your
neighbor
you
know
uh
with
that
to
it
is
important
to
socialize
and
get
that
um
that
cognitive
stimulation
uh
with
that
yes
and
you
know
the
older
you
get
uh
the
more
you
are
outliving
your
cohort
yeah
right
social
circle
really
dwind
dwindles
right
when
you
get
into
your
80s
yeah
yeah
it
does
why
do
you
think
so
many
people
underestimate
the
power
of
structured
mental
stimulus
stimulation
sorry
yes
uh
I
think
because
uh
I
think
because
we
haven't
really
uh
thought
about
it
uh
it's
not
something
that
you
know
it's
something
that
is
fairly
recently
known
and
the
the
research
is
only
just
coming
out
now
about
how
important
it
is.

SPEAKER_00
27:49

Uh
so
there
was
a
really
huge
research
project
uh
delivered
in
China
and
they
looked
at
40,000
people
over
10
years.
It
was
a
really
huge
uh
trial
what
they
were
looking
at
was
they
were
just
looking
at
people's
memory.
So
at
the
start
of
the
10
years
and
at
the
end.
And
what
they
saw
was
the
most
important
factor
that
gave
them
a
good
memory
was
diet,
like
we've
already
talked
about
and
really
high
levels
of
vegetables
and
uh
low
processed
food.
And
then
number
two
the
second
most
important
uh
feature
of
the
people
who
had
good
memories
after
10
years
was
cognitive
engagement.
So
was
that
exercising
the
mind
and
the
researchers
were
really
surprised
at
that
because
they
thought
that
number
two
might
be
exercise
or
they
you
know
physical
exercise
or
that
number
one
was
so
they
were
surprised
that
exercising
the
mind
was
so
high
on
you
know
uh
for
people
who
who
had
good
memories
at
the
end
of
uh
10
years.
So
number
one
was
diet
number
two
was
cognitive
stimulation
or
exercising
the
mind.
Number
three
was
exercising
the
body
and
number
four
was
social
engagement.

SPEAKER_01
29:11

And
I
think
it's
even
more
important
in
these
days,
especially
with
AI
and
everything
it's
so
easy
to
not
think
these
days
to
make
sure
that
you
do
think
and
you
know
sometimes
doing
things
the
old
way
are
is
better
for
your
brain
with

How To Work With Jill On Zoom

SPEAKER_01
29:28

that.
So
speaking
of
that
so
your
website
is
for
betterminds.com
that's
right
okay
so
if
somebody
goes
to
your
website
what
can
they
find?

SPEAKER_00
29:38

So
they
can
find
more
information
about
cognitive
stimulation
therapy
and
they
can
find
some
of
the
scientific
evidence
about
it
and
they
can
also
contact
me
and
we
can
have
a
chat
about
them
doing
CST
with
me.
Okay.
So
I
deliver
cognitive
stimulation
therapy
through
Zoom.
I
have
clients
right
now
in
Europe
and
in
the
US
and
in
Canada.
So
if
you're
English
speaking
uh
we
can
work
together
because
I
don't
speak
another
language
and
uh
but
other
than
that
geography
is
not
a
barrier.
So
if
you
can
use
Zoom
we
can
work
together.
And
learning
Zoom
is
good
uh
mental
stimulation
cognitive
stimulation
yes
and
you
wouldn't
believe
the
number
of
people
that
can
use
it
I
think
it
really
happened
during
the
pandemic
a
lot
of
people
learned
how
to
use
Zoom.

SPEAKER_01
30:33

Yeah
yeah
technic
tech
technology
is
always
a
good
one
for
cognitive
stimulation
uh
I
know
for
me
anyway
with
it
so
um
I
think
this
is
so
interesting
uh
you
know
and
there's
like
you
said
there's
simple
things
that
we
can
do
to
help
the
prevention
of
aging
but
if
you
do
get
that
diagnosis
the
of
the
mild
cognitive
impairment
again
you
can
kind
of
slow
um
the
progression
a
little
bit
by
doing
some
of
these
things
with
it
uh
for
that
yes
you
can
keep
your
skills
up
you
can
keep
some
of
your
mental
skills
up
with
cognitive
stimulation
therapy
it
also
is
shown
to
really
help
people's
mood
quality
of
life
and
for
women
it's
been
even
shown
to
alleviate
depression
oh
I
you
know
I
can
see
that
yeah
I
I
could
see
that
because
I
think
sometimes
as
women
we
feel
like
we
have
to
take
care
of
everything
and
it's
a
lot
it's
a
lot
to
to
handle
some
days.

SPEAKER_00
31:35

Yes
yeah
and
I
think
the
connection
that
you
have
in
in
this
just
such
a
rewarding
and
wonderful
conversation
to
thank
you
well
I
just
think
it's
important.

SPEAKER_01
31:46

I
think
you
know
people
need
to
know
what
they
can
do.
And
if
they're
in
the
middle
of
having
uh
a
loved
one
family
member
with
dementia
what
can
they
do?
What
are
other
things
to
do?
Because
you
feel
so
helpless
so
helpless
uh
you
know
because
there's
just
nothing
they
can
do
for
you.
You
know
so
at
least
there's
something
you
could
be
like
all
right
I
even
if
it's
learning
how
to
have
that
conversation
you
know
because
my
mom
had
opinions
about
things
all
the
time
still
she
she
always
did
you
know
and
you'd
be
like
oh
okay
you
know
so
I
I
think
sometimes
we
we
take
our
older
adults
for
granted
you
know
we
can
we
push
them
in
the
background
sometimes
and
we
shouldn't
so
with
that
so
we're
gonna
tell
everybody
your
the
link
to
your
website
will
be
on
with
our
show
and
everything
so
people
can
check
it
out.

Final Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_01
32:39

It's
very
interesting
lots
of
good
things
on
there.
So
thank
you
for
joining
us
today.
This
has
been
so
stimulating
this
has
been
a
stimulating
conversation
wonderful
okay
thank
you
for
having
me
Lisa
thank
you
so
I
hope
you
all
have
enjoyed
the
conversation
so
I
hope
you
enjoyed
your
cup
of
coffee
your
cup
of
tea
or
if
it's
a
really
bad
day
your
glass
of
wine
and
don't
forget
to
leave
us
a
review
or
subscribe
to
our
YouTube
channel
and
we
will
see
you
next
time
on
another
episode
of
Patty's
Place