Therapy Is Not Scary And Your Brain Is Lying-Interview with Dr. Kathryn Brzozowski

Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_00

0:15

Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we will talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. I named this podcast Patty for my mom who passed away from dementia about two years ago. So I just want this to be a place where everyone knows they're not alone as they talk about all these different topics that come up. So grab your cup of tea, your cup of coffee, or if you're having a really bad day, a glass of wine, and let's get to our episode. So today I'm really excited. We have Dr. Katherine Brasowski. Hope I said that right.

SPEAKER_02

0:45

Close enough.

Small Habits That Actually Help

SPEAKER_00

0:45

Close enough. She is a psychotherapist with over 25 years of experience helping people navigate grief, anxiety, chronic illness, and major life changes. So thank you for joining us today here on Patty's Place. Yes. So I was looking. Yes. I was looking in what would you say? What are some small daily habits that can strengthen norm uh strengthen mental and emotional health?

SPEAKER_01

1:14

Well, um, okay, great, good good first question. Um I think it really the small habits really depend on the person, right? Because I feel like there are um, you know, sometimes people say, well, what about journaling? You know, if you just journal every night or you just do gratitude every night or those things, I feel like that might be really a great um little habit to add that might really help someone. But if someone else might be like that, just I'll stress out about it, I won't be able to to do the um, you know, do the journal, I won't be able to do it, and then it won't help for won't work for them. So certainly I think it's based on the person, but just some general ones that usually work, obviously, are you know, drinking water and those types of things and like keeping you physically healthy, um, because then mentally you can be a little more clear. Um, but also so many different ways people can just remember to stay present, just remember like different different tricks, but they may be oh, I don't know how. Sorry else to say that.

SPEAKER_00

2:22

No, no, that's okay. Yeah, I mean, I I understand what you're saying because, like, yeah, sometimes journaling helps, but then sometimes you're like, oh, that's overwhelming. Or people are like, oh, go to the gym, and you're like, okay, and sometimes that helps, and other times you're like, well, that's overwhelming. It's one more thing I have to fit into the day. So try to find maybe just a little something for even if it's a few minutes to try to help when you're going through so much.

Finding Joy During Dementia Loss

SPEAKER_01

2:45

Oh, exactly. I know I know that trying to just get away from everything um somehow, you know, trying to be alone with either with your thoughts or just with something fun, dancing to your favorite song, trying to find little moments of joy because when you're going through things, it's really sometimes hard to find happiness or little positive things because you can feel so mired down in the difficulties of life, especially with having a if you have a loved one with dementia. That's even more so. And and I don't know that this is on my that you saw this, but my father has Alzheimer's. And it has been extremely difficult. And there's not the support is interesting because I'm not his caregiver. He's I I was, but now he's in an assisted living for the last couple of years. But it's been, I feel like I have already lost him. And and there's no for people that have lost a parent, it's like then there's support or people are checking on you, or something like that. And in this case, it's like, well, just go visit him. But when I go, it's not, it's very I still miss him very much. Yes. Like I need to talk to him, I need his advice, I want to ask him something, I want to text him, and you can't do any of that. So it's just very, I think when things are heavy like that, you have to look for moments of joy, even if it's not with that person, if it's just somewhere. Try to find something positive to kind of keep you going.

SPEAKER_00

4:11

Definitely. Because yeah, with my mom, I would go see her, and yes, physically she was there, but she wasn't. Every once in a while, there would be a lucid moment where she would say something and I would know, like she would look at me and she'd say, I know this is really hard on you. And I knew that was my, you know, my mom being my mom, you know. Um, and then other times she would be like, she'd ask me about my mom, you know, because she thought I was just this nice girl that came to visit. And sometimes I would leave and I would just feel so exhausted, you know, and so sad, you know, even though I just spent the time with her. But to your point, you're right, there isn't a lot of support for people who are going through that caregiving with dementia. Because it you are losing that person as you're looking at that person. And it's it's really uh, it's such a different experience with it.

SPEAKER_01

5:06

It really is. And I feel like the things that people miss about someone when they pass aren't how they that they were physically there. It was the jokes they told, it was the things they were able to talk about, it was the looks they gave them that showed that they knew something. It was their phone call. Like they're the things they miss. They don't miss their physical body, and that is what we end up. That's pretty much the last thing that we have. And that's very, very strange.

Emotional Burnout Is Not Weakness

SPEAKER_00

5:32

It is the one thing I did learn from her with dementia is that people who have dementia are in that moment because that's all they know, you know. And so I learned being with her is I had to be in that moment with her. And sometimes I did laugh with her because it was something she said or something that happened, and that would bring me joy. Like I would be like, oh, that was a good visit. You know, we were laughing like we always did. And so that kind of did teach me that I had to be in that moment with her, even though it was hard when I laughed with it. Yes. What do you think? I I noticed you say on that, what do you mean when you say emotional burnout is not weakness? Because definitely taking care of somebody with a chronic illness or dementia definitely burns you out emotionally.

SPEAKER_01

6:24

Well, it's it is it is being burnt out emotionally, but that doesn't mean you're weak. Right. It's like when people cry and then they think they're being weak, they can be really strong and they're going through something. They just happen to be crying about it. They're still doing it. So even though you're still doing it and you may be getting depleted, you may be burnt out. It's how I don't I don't understand how that's weakness. I don't understand how else we could, you know, show up for something really, really hard and have it affect us really, really deeply and become burnout with it, then I just don't think that that's weakness. I think that we have to keep working to get the supports and the coping mechanisms in place to help us maintain and not burn out as quickly or at all. But I think that's a tall order because it's a very hard thing.

SPEAKER_00

7:16

It it really is. And I I think I know when I was going through it and even now grieving for my mom, you don't even know that you're emotionally burnt out because you're just you're in this survival mode. It's like you gotta go to work, then you, you know, you got you you go visit them, and then you're also taking care of uh their health might have changed, and now there's they're on a different medicine, or you notice a decline, and it's just like constant, or you're in the store going, well, maybe she'll eat this, you know, because she's not eating. And you I don't even think you realize that you're burnt out, you know, because you're you're going through it. And everyone will say to you, Well, you need to take care of yourself. And what would you say to a client or somebody when they feel so overwhelmed they don't even know how to take care of themselves?

SPEAKER_01

8:08

I've I feel like that when we say self-care and things like that, you know, self-care really originated from caregiving professions where they said, you know, you will burn out if you do not take care of yourself because you can't just give all day of yourself and take on everybody's pain without, you know, taking care of yourself also. So the way I conceptualize self-care though, is that you're basically you create a life that can withstand difficulty, right? So it doesn't mean go get a massage when you're super stressed. It means you have a routine that you like, you surround yourself with people that you like that make you feel good, you have activities that fill you up, you do all of these things as like um the scaffolding for your life that then when you are having to deal with things and having to take things that or do things that really deplete you um and are really emotionally hard, then you have that like you already have that reserve kind of to keep you from getting so burnt out. I know that's easier said than done, and I know for caregivers especially, um, it felt like sometimes there was no, you know, I would go to work and then I would come home, and this was while he was, you know, kind of more in the uh early to mid stages. So he would just wait for me to get home, and you know, he's like he'd ask my son, like, where's your mother? When's your mother gonna be home? And I'd come home and then he would just want to talk to me and talk, you know, talk about the same stuff and just talk. And I was like, oh, like I just but yeah, you know, of course now I miss that, but I do feel like at those times you you you won't have it, you won't have the reserve for those types of situations if you don't also like on your way home, you schedule a break to go for 15 minutes to go sit at the park, or you just do something that kind of orients you to your life right now, because life is bad and good all the time. It just keeps they're changing. So we can't stay stuck too much in a bad moment um or in a good moment because it's all we just kind of move through it.

SPEAKER_00

10:19

And and I also think with that, I I think there's a big uh caregiver's guilt because you feel guilty when you're taking care of yourself, you know, like you said, like taking those extra 15 minutes, maybe on a really beautiful day that you go sit in the park or you just go walk around a store or even asking for help, like saying, Hey, can you come sit here? You know, I need to go to the I need to go to the doctor, or I need to go get my hair done, or you just want to go shopping by yourself, you know. I how are there some strategies or how can people can maybe ease their guilt because you do, you just feel so guilty that you should give 100% to your loved one and then you do neglect yourself.

SPEAKER_01

11:02

Yes, I I agree with that. And I think guilt, you know, guilt is a feeling, but that feeling comes from thoughts, right? So if we think while we're out walking around the store looking at stuff, if we start thinking, you know, I really shouldn't be here right now, I really should be there with with them, you know. I should, I how how could I possibly do this? You know, they need me. Or what kind of selfish person are you walking around this store? If you have those thoughts, you're gonna feel guilty, right? Right. The feeling doesn't just come by itself, it came because you had certain thoughts. Now, if you thought, you know, I'm at you're at the store and you start thinking, you know, I could be with them right now, but I did kind of want a little bit of a break, and there's some pretty clothes here that I really want to try on, and then I can like, you know, I'll feel good when I get home. If you think that, and that's no more true or untrue than the other thought, right? Right. So if you think that though, how are you gonna feel? You're not gonna feel guilty, you're gonna feel like, oh yeah, I mean, this is kind of fun, good use of my time, but and so it the the thoughts very, very much dictate those feelings. So that's your entry point. So when people say I just have all so much guilt, well, why? What thoughts are making you feel guilty?

What People Get Wrong About Therapy

SPEAKER_00

12:21

That's a good point. I think we forget that that the thoughts and the feelings are connected with that. And I know sometimes, you know, people might you may need to talk to somebody professionally, a third person, because sometimes talking with family or friends can be overwhelming because you have all these different opinions and and everything. So what would you say are the most common misconceptions about the therapy process if someone decides, you know, hey, I just need to take this time for me?

SPEAKER_01

12:53

Oh, there's many, many misconceptions. And as when I first started in private practice um uh 14 years ago, I and that wasn't even that long ago, but when I started in private practice, it was still very much like people like, you know, don't tell anyone I'm going to therapy, or you know, they were very it was still, it was getting there, but it still wasn't like anybody would talk about it with everyone. Now we know it has gotten, it's not perfect. There's still lots of people that have, you know, there's still lots of stigma about it, but it's much better. There's now people talking, what about your therapist? And this is what I did in therapy. So I thought I think that's positive to a certain degree. Where I don't think it's positive is that it's becoming, you know, so so much in our vernacular now, therapy and therapeutic concepts, that I feel like not people aren't really sure what it is. They just hear, oh, therapy. I guess I'll go to therapy, and they don't know what it is. And then if you don't really know what it is, you can't even make sure you're finding the right person for you. So you might be like, well, this is therapy. I have a therapist, I guess this is it. And that's not true because therapy, the success of therapy, so studies have shown that the modality that's used is important, of course. But the most important factor in if the therapeutic process or if therapy is beneficial or not, is the relationship between the therapist and the client. And so sometimes people don't click, right? Or sometimes it's just not a good fit. And it's like that in the regular world, and it's like that for finding a therapist too. So if you don't click with them, you should go find someone that you do and also make sure they have an expertise in the area you're going for. So going to therapy after the loss of a parent, right? Which is that's and I work in grief and loss also, so that's something that I see. Going to therapy for that is very different than going to therapy for um, you know, a life like a long history of trauma. Those are those are two different things. And they're two different therapists. So I mean, that therapist may have um, one therapist may have training in both, right? But it's two different types of ways to look at it. So finding a therapist, I think the biggest misconception is that you can just find a therapist. If it doesn't work, it's because therapy doesn't work, or because therapy's not right for you, or I've heard people say therapy doesn't work for me. I believe that therapy can work for anyone, it can help anyone achieve what they are trying to achieve or fix or you know, get closer towards in their life if they find the right person. I do believe that.

SPEAKER_00

15:32

I agree with that. And in two things uh that I made me think was one, when you're going through even caregiving, or when you lose your parent or your loved one, it can bring up a lot of other issues that you didn't even think about and you wonder why do I feel this way? And you make those connections, you know. So, and the other one to your point is that therapy works. A, yes, I agree, you have to have the right therapist, but then also you have to use the tools that a therapist gives you, and you also have to participate. Like you can't just tell the therapist what you think they want to hear, you have to be honest.

SPEAKER_01

16:13

That's absolutely true. And you know what? Likewise, the therapist also, I always say if you don't get mad at your therapist, at least once they're not doing their job. And it's not it is not because we want to be, you know, where make people mad at us. But if you're not challenged at all, then you know, I'm not sure. I I think that's the other thing, the other misconception I see is that like the main point of therapy is to have a safe place to go, like vent. And I mean, that's true, that's one of the things you might do, but if you're venting, and studies have have researched this as well, that if you're just venting and your therapist is just like, yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, that person is a jerk or whatever, and you're they're getting more and more rooted in what they're thinking and believing, and that might not be accurate or helpful or anything. We might need be needing to, well, what was your role in that? You know, we might need to, and they might not like when you ask that question because I don't have a role in that, right? That was all the other person. I'm not, I'm just asking if you think that you do. So it's like the challenging and the the way you really tell if therapy is working isn't how you feel right after the session. It's are is your life getting any better or any more where you want it to be? That's that's how you tell. Is therapy working outside of therapy? That's how you tell.

SPEAKER_00

17:36

Well, that's a good point. Yeah, because that maybe when you leave, you might not feel that great because maybe you touched upon so many things, but then later on and you think about it or use the tools, you might be like, oh, wait, I am coping better with this, with it, you know. Absolutely because definitely when you are in the caregiving mode or even when you're grieving, you do have those ups and downs. Well, in any part of your life, you will, but it if you are especially yeah, when you're able to use the tools, they do help with it, even if it's for a few seconds, like you said, to change your thought and be like, it's okay for me to be out here for an hour. You know, it's all right to be doing this for myself, you know, for that. Do you think there are any like what strategies can help people build emotional resilience during a major life transition?

SPEAKER_01

18:29

I would say the looking at your distorted thinking, which again, and and these are um cognitive behavioral therapy concepts, but looking at the distorted thinking, like, am I uh doing all or nothing? Like either I'm the best daughter or I'm the worst daughter, right? Right. If you're doing that kind of thinking, then what do you think what category are you gonna put yourself in if you go to the store instead of going home with your with your parent? You're gonna be the worst daughter, right? And that kind of thinking is not helpful because there's a lot of other things besides just best and worst daughter, right? And then how are you gonna feel? You're gonna feel guilty. But if so, I think a lot of the the ways to kind of cope with difficult situations is to look at are there things that I'm doing with the way that I am thinking about things that is really putting me um in a worse situation. But now there are also things that I feel like are not distorted thoughts, they just are hard. They're just hard things. So if your parent is is is has dementia, or if they're or if they've or they're passing away, or they have passed away, there's no, well, why don't you think about it differently because you're making yourself sad thinking about that they died? Yeah, because it is sad and you're gonna be sad. Right. There's no look at it differently. So in that case, there's um acceptance and commitment therapy act, and that one is what I use a lot with people because that is basically the idea is that life isn't happy all the time. People aren't meant to be happy all the time. And the idea is to live a full life, because if you live a full life, you're gonna have both sides. If you don't have a good relationship with your parent, you're not gonna be sad if anything happens to them. But if you do, or if you have a relationship with your parent, their your parent, you're you're going to experience loss. So that if you get the your dream job, you could also lose your dream job. Like there's there's if you don't get any job, you're not gonna have to worry about losing it. So great. But it's like if you are living a full life, you will experience the entire range of human emotions. So the idea of kind of living through all of the things. If you're sad, feel the sadness. Try to still focus on your values, focus on what you want for your life, but don't try to say, okay, I'm not gonna be sad about that. I'm just gonna be happy. Because that's that's not really how things work.

SPEAKER_00

20:48

I would agree with that. I think people have a hard time just being in that moment and feeling what they feel, and to be able to say, yes, I feel sad right now, you know, like whether it's because you're going through caregiving or because you did lose somebody or or whatever the situation is, to be able to say, I'm sad. Because I think it's human nature that we want to fix that for a person and be like, oh, well, you know, they lived a full life or they're not suffering anymore. And you're like, I know that, but I'm still sad. You know, and I think it's hard for people to be able to say it's okay to be sad if that's what you need to feel, you know.

Grief Waves And Anticipatory Grief

SPEAKER_01

21:27

And it is sad, right? It is sad. So us not being sad about it. Now, there's being sad, thinking about it, crying, being sad, you know, having a bad morning, having a bad afternoon, fine. Of course, if it's going where you're not getting any enjoyment in life at all for weeks at a time, you know, then it might be time to consider, you know, more frequent therapy, um, you know, that focuses more a little bit more on maybe depression or something like that, you know, maybe maybe medication, maybe. Maybe, but I mean, for the most part, a lot of things are going to, you know, the next day you might be not feeling as bad. I mean, you've heard the waves analogy. Yeah. Yes. So if you think about grief as kind of just coming in and out, when it goes back out, you have some time where you can probably enjoy something for once or feel okay, but it's gonna come back. And when it comes back, you know it's gonna go back out again. It's just hard to wrap your head around when you're going through it.

SPEAKER_00

22:27

It is, especially um when you are caregiving for somebody in with dementia that that you do, you feel those waves where some days it's very, very heavy, other days it's not as much, you know. And I think uh there's that anticipatory grief with it. And I also think, especially caregiving with dementia, I think it the caregiver has a hard time if the person doesn't remember them. Because like my mom didn't remember who I was. Um, and obviously it did hurt, you know, but at a certain point, I I didn't focus on it anymore. You know, she she I she didn't remember who I was, she didn't remember who my dad was. But deep down inside, somewhere in there, she knew somehow we were connected, somehow she trusted us because she was always happy to see us and everything. But I know there are some care uh caregivers for uh dementia that they just can't get past the fact that their loved one doesn't remember them.

SPEAKER_01

23:30

You know, I mean it's it's hard, it's a sad thing, and that's when you try to get your own support for that. But I think remembering that it's obviously it's not personal, there's nothing you could have done differently. It's like not like if you were a better daughter, she would have remembered you're not gonna they're not going to. I mean, I I know I everybody tells me not to, and I try not to, but every once in a while I'll ask my dad, like, and and I think once once I phrased it like, Dad, do you know who I am? So I gave him a clue already, and then he said, He said, Yes, you're my daughter. And I was like, Oh, I was like, which one? And then he's like, I don't know that. And then I was like, Oh, and I was I said, That's why you don't ask. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00

24:14

You don't ask.

Why A Professional Helps More

SPEAKER_01

24:15

And then he asked me how many he had. So I was like, so close. But I think that it is just, you know, that it's not personal, you're just in a sad thing. So trying not to, um, trying not to take that personally and and just know if you're having a hard time one day with the fact that they don't know who you are, maybe that's just a day you're gonna have a hard time with it. But and I think, and I think that's also the reason why professional can be helpful because you're right. Back to your point about talking to friends and family, that's great, but they are they just have an investment in you and how you behave or think that a therapist doesn't. Because I don't, I'm not with you on a day-to-day basis. You know, I'm not in your house. I'm not, I don't have all these years of baggage, and and you know, well, if you would have just done this when I told you to, you wouldn't be in this situation. I mean, we don't have any of that. Right. So we can just focus on what you need and how to figure out what's best for you.

SPEAKER_00

25:12

Yeah, yeah. And it is hard because you get so many different, different opinions, different, you know, in your head, and then you're thinking about what you need to do next. And sometimes you just feel overwhelmed that sometimes I would be, I'd be like, I don't want to talk to anybody right now. Like, I just let me just put Netflix on and I'm gonna just forget what's going on, you know, because it's like it's just too much for it.

SPEAKER_01

25:34

Uh yes, and it I feel like at the end of the day, that it's not that a lot of people are really offering coping mechanisms or support that is like I mean, I think people do offer that, but it is hard to get that support that is tailored just to you because it probably, you know, they they somebody might not suggest that you go on a vacation because they might not want you to go on a vacation, because then that means they might have to step up. Exactly. That's not a that's not for you. That's like, oh no, a vacation, that's a bad idea right now. Because you know, you'd feel guilty if you went on vacation. Exactly. But I'm I mean, so it gets a little bit tricky.

Speak Easy And Feeling Safe

SPEAKER_00

26:15

Yeah, yeah, it does. You have so many, when you're a caregiver, there are so many different levels, so many different people that you're trying to manage that it does just become overwhelming with that. Um, I want to talk about your website for a few minutes. I I love the saying on your website doesn't everyone need a place to speak easy. I just love that.

SPEAKER_01

26:37

Thank you, thank you. Yes, that's so the name of our therapy practice is Speak Easy. Um, and it is play on words. Obviously, we do not have any, you know, alcohol here. Once in a while in the break room fridge for if we're here super late. Well, yeah, yeah. Not in general. Um so yes, thank you, thank you. It's so funny because when I was changing from a um solo practice into a group uh in 2022, I uh was like, well, I need a name, I need a name. And so my kids were there and they were like late teens at the time. And my uh my son said, Well, he's like, you know, we're throwing around names, and he's like, How about speakeasy? Like as a joke. And I was like, Oh yeah, funny. And then I was like, wait, wait a second. And then he goes, Did I just think of it? I was like, think so. So that's worked out, and then we can do all the all the puns with like, are you keeping something bottled up? We tried to go too much with the you know, right kind of theme, but but it really is true.

SPEAKER_00

27:44

That is, you know, there you need to be able to speak easy, you need to feel comfortable and at ease with your therapist to be able to talk about all those things. Uh I I noticed one of your services, it it's called Now and Then. Can you talk about that?

SPEAKER_01

27:59

Thank you for asking about that because that is our new, I've been working on this for almost a year now, and um, we have just launched it, but it um it really has been an exciting thing for us. So basically, you know, when you go to therapy, it is typically a commitment, right? It's it's a financial commitment, it's a time commitment. We do accept insurance, but even so, co-pays are very expensive. Yeah. So the way that therapy is delivered typically is on a regular weekly basis for you know, however long it takes for your um situation or your symptoms to resolve, or you know, do you get the help you need? And sometimes people stay in therapy for many, many, many years because they continue to need help and support. And there's nothing wrong with that. Um and most therapists go to therapy on purpose because I learned in grad school long ago that the best therapists have therapists, and it's true because if we don't work out stuff outside the session, it could end up in there and it could affect the client, which that we don't want. So it's just prudent. But um, but the point is that there's a lot of people that may not need ongoing therapy, or you might just need to talk to somebody just once. But the therapy is not really set up like that here. It's certainly set up that way, as far as it being there being models that can do that, that are evidence-based, that are effective. But we just uh in the United States anyway, it's just that that's not the way we usually deliver it. Not and and there's certain things it doesn't work for, that's true. But there are some people that are starting to do it across the country, and I thought it would be so great if someone could just go to therapy, book it like you're booking a massage, right? I really need to go to therapy, but I don't want to go for the next, I don't really need to. I'm I'm trying to decide about a job change, or I'm just having a really hard day with the loss of my parent. And I just want to talk about it. I don't need to go every Monday for the next, you know, six months. I just want to talk to somebody. And so we've designed this where there's it's you you don't you book differently than you book for ongoing therapy. You would just book on on a scheduling app, kind of like the same one you would use for a massage. You pick your therapy, you look and see who has availability this week, um, what times are they in person or online, whichever works best. And then you just click. Now, this isn't covered by insurance because the whole point of insurance, and most people don't realize this if you're using your insurance to pay for therapy, you are getting a diagnosis, you're getting a mental health diagnosis. Okay. Otherwise, your health insurance will not pay for it because they're paying for a treatment for whatever is wrong. So they have to make sure something's wrong, which which not everybody has a mental health diagnosis. But if you can only go there, you know, it so it makes it more like people are more likely to maybe go long-term for something to use their insurance that they might not need to. Because if you say, okay, well, how about this? I'll use my insurance, I'll go one time, and then that's it. It doesn't matter. And then I'll I've I've hacked the system. No, because in that first session, that first session isn't self-contained, they're getting background and information to then go on and treat you over time. But the whole point of a now and then session is it's a whole therapy in one session. So we have a beginning, a middle, an end. You get, you know, um referrals or resources or something at the end. And you know what? Three months later, you want to come back, you just book it again and come see us. It's not an ongoing relationship, it is a one-time relationship, like a one-time session. But in that session, we are being very clear that we are working to help you with something in this session. So you should walk away feeling like I got to talk about that with a professional that I needed to talk about it, and not, you know, I feel like it just provides more support to people that aren't ready for therapy or don't need ongoing therapy.

SPEAKER_00

32:04

I think that, yeah, I think that is a really, really good service for people. Right? Because sometimes you just you just need to talk to somebody about whatever's going on for it, and that gives you that opportunity. So your website is speakeasy counseling and therapy.com, correct?

SPEAKER_01

32:24

Yes, and okay you can get to it through that. Okay, we can change the domain today.

SPEAKER_00

32:30

Speake easy today.

SPEAKER_01

32:30

Speak easy today. We were trying to make it a little shorter, but not all of the pages show up with that. You know, it's an ongoing process. Okay. Um, so yes, either of those, either of those will work. Um Okay.

Resources And Closing Requests

SPEAKER_00

32:43

All right. Um, well, thank you so much for joining us. This has been so informative, and I will definitely make sure that the link for your website is on there so people can know that even if it's just one time to come talk, it's important with it. And that's therapy shouldn't be so scary. It's okay, you know, when you're going through it.

SPEAKER_01

33:02

It shouldn't be scary at all. And we're not scary.

SPEAKER_00

33:05

No, therapists are not scary. And I they should watch. Have you ever watched the show on Apple Shrinking?

SPEAKER_01

33:11

Love it. And they do an excellent job, I think, of showing how you know the therapeutic process and how therapists are. I know, I love that show.

SPEAKER_00

33:19

It's one of my top shows. Love it. It is great, and it's very good about grief too, because that is really how it starts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

33:26

Yes. It it yes, it really is. And I actually I do have a podcast also. It's called Long Story Longer, okay, where I work with a um psychiat uh prescriber, and we talk about issues from the lens of prescribing and of counseling and therapy. So we, you know, shrinking kind of comes up in that as well.

SPEAKER_00

33:45

Okay. Well, we're gonna put that on there as well, too, so people can listen too.

SPEAKER_01

33:48

Awesome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

33:49

Thank you so much for joining us today. So uh everybody hope you enjoyed this discussion about therapy for it. So please leave us a review, subscribe to our YouTube channel, and hopefully you enjoyed your cup of coffee, your cup of tea, your glass of wine if it was a really bad day, and join us for another edition of Patty's Place.