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Day Of The Dead Traditions For Healing Grief-Interview with Irene Zamudio

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Grief gets a lot of bad advice: stay strong, stay quiet, stay sad. We wanted something more honest and more livable, so we invited Irene Azumudio, a bilingual grief counselor with Lightways Hospice in Joliet, Illinois, to talk with us about the Day of the Dead and why it can be deeply comforting for anyone navigating loss, dementia caregiving, or long-term bereavement.

We walk through the history and meaning of the holiday, including how Indigenous Mexiamerican roots and Catholic traditions shaped what many people now recognize around November 2. We also clear up a common mix-up: Day of the Dead is not Halloween, and it is not meant to be scary. The heart of it is welcome, remembrance, and connection, whether that happens at home, in a town square, or even at a cemetery with family, music, and food.

Irene explains the “ofrenda” (an altar of offerings) in a way that makes it easy to picture and easy to try. We talk about the four elements and the symbols people use like candles for guidance, water for the journey, marigolds for their bright path and scent, and “papel picado” as a sign of wind and presence. We also dig into why photos, favorite meals, and colorful skulls can help us remember how someone lived, not only how they died, and how the week can include everyone from beloved pets to forgotten souls and ancestors.

If you’ve ever felt guilty for laughing while you’re grieving, this conversation offers relief. Listen, share it with someone who’s missing a loved one, and if it helps you, please subscribe and leave a review so more people can find Patty’s Place.

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Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_00
0:16

Welcome
to
Patty's
Place,
the
place
where
we're
going
to
talk
about
grief,
dementia,
and
caregiving.
I
started
this
podcast
in
honor
of
my
mom,
Pat,
who
passed
away
from
dementia
almost
three
years
ago.
I'm
your
host,
Lisa.
I'm
here
so
we
can
have
those
difficult
conversations
in
a
soft
place
so
you
know
that
you're
not
alone
as
we
take
this
journey
along.
So
grab
your
cup
of
tea,
your
cup
of
coffee,
or
if
you're
having
that
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine
and
come
join
us.
I'm
really
excited
about
our
conversation
today
because
it
kind
of
encompasses
a
lot
of
different
things,
but
I'm
excited
because
it's
that
time
of
year
for
it.
So
my
guest
today
is
she
is
a
grief
counselor
with
Lightways
Hospice
out
here
in
Joliet,
Illinois.
She's
the
bilingual
grief
counselor.
Her
name
is
Irene
Azumudio.
And
today
we
are
talking
about
the
day
of
the
dead,
or
I
I
won't
say
it's
right.
You
say
it.
There
we
go.
I'm
excited

Where Day Of The Dead Began

SPEAKER_00
1:10

because
I
never
knew
that
much
about
this
holiday
until
I
went
to
the
Lightways
event.
And
now
it's
like
I
just
think
it's
such
a
cool
holiday.
So
can
you
let's
start
with
where
did
this
holiday
originate
from?

SPEAKER_02
1:22

Yeah,
so
it's
one
of
my
favorite
holidays,
and
I'm
so
happy
and
excited
that
we
get
a
chance
to
and
the
space
to
talk
about
it.
But
it's
um,
it
was
a
holiday
that
actually
is
part
of
the
Aztec
Mayan
Mesoamerica
um
roots.
So
it
started
within
that
area
of
Mexico,
and
um
it
had
been
around
for
just
as
long
as
the
that
they
had
been
around.
And
then
it
got
when
the
Spanish
came
over
and
conquered
Mexico,
they
actually
um
brought
their
religion
and
their
beliefs,
which
was
the
Catholic
faith.
Um,
and
so
then
they
they
kind
of
incorporated
their
rituals
and
and
customs
with
that
surrounded
the
the
de
los
muertos
and
kind
of
put
it
together
with
their
with
the
Spanish
um
uh
I'm
sorry,
their
their
religion.
So
that's
why
it's
near
November
2nd,
where
it's
all
Souls
Day.
But
this
actually
had
a
different
day,
different
time,
but
it
was
around
the
fall
that
this
was
celebrated
during
the
indigenous
time.

SPEAKER_00
2:30

Okay.
And
how
long
is
the
holiday?
The
actual
holiday.

SPEAKER_02
2:37

So
the
actual
holiday
that
originated
within
Mexico,
it's
actually
a
week-long
um
festival.
And
it
they
start,
people
start
decorating,
you
know,
around
the
middle
of
October,
if
not
a
little
later,
but
it
actually
starts
on
October
27th.

SPEAKER_00
2:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02
2:55

Yeah,
and
it
goes
until
November
2nd.

SPEAKER_00
2:58

Okay.
And
what's
the
difference
between
the
Day
of
the
Dead
versus
the
Catholic
All
Souls
Day?

SPEAKER_02
3:04

Yeah.
So
the
Day
of
the
Dead,
it
just
incorporates,
you
know,
it's
not
just
sorry,
but
it
incorporates
all
of
you
know
people
and
souls
that
have
passed
on.
So
it's
the
souls
of
pets,
it's
this,
you
know,
our
great
ancestors
that,
you
know,
that
were
before
us.
There's
um
the
forgotten
souls,
or,
you
know,
there's
there's
so
many
souls
that
we
think
about
within
that
week.
And
all
souls
day
um
has
more
of
an
undertone
of
of
religion
and
Catholic
religion.
And
so
the
difference
can
be
sometimes
that
the
day
of
the
dead
or
the
other
Los
Muertos
is
more
of
a
celebration,
more
of
you
know,
of
a
festival,
parades.
And
all
souls
day,
there's
more
of
the
undertone
of
going
to
church,
you
know,
being
a
little
bit
more
um
refined,
praying,
and
we're
wanting
to,
and
a
lot
of
times
it's
all
souls
day
is
prayer
for
souls
that
um
that
may
not
have
made
it
to
heaven
yet
or
maybe
could
be
stuck
in
limbo.
So
that's
where
we
take
that
time
to
kind
of
like
remember
them
and
pray
for
them,
where
the
other
Los
Muertos
is
more
of
like
welcoming
back
the
souls
to
the
land
of
the
living
and
bringing
them
back
home.
So
that's
a
little
bit
of
the
difference
between
the
two.

SPEAKER_00
4:24

I
was
so
excited
when
I
did
the
first
event
for
for
this
holiday,
and
you
were
like,
the
first
night
starts
with
pets.
I
was
like,
oh,
I
was
so
excited
about
it.
I
was
like,
yes,
because
we
all
love
our
pets
with
that
as
well.

SPEAKER_02
4:39

Pets
become
part
of
our
family,
and
you
know,
and
sometimes
too,
you
know,
society
has
changed
and
things
like
that,
and
there's
so
many
reasons,
but
you
know,
sometimes
pets
do
become
like
people's
children.
You
know,
and
they
and
they
take
on
a
different,
different
meaning
and
different
importance.
And
you
know,
yeah,
when
I
found
that
out
to
you,
I
was
like,
oh
my
god,
I
love
that.

SPEAKER_00
5:01

Exactly.
Yes,
yes.
So
so
this
isn't
Halloween,
even
though
it's
right
around
Halloween.
I
mean,
it
and
you
see
stuff
now
where
you
you
see
the
uh
you
see
Halloween
stuff,
but
then
you
also
see
things
that
represent
the
day
of
the
dead,
and
so
they're
not
interchangeable
at
all.

SPEAKER_02
5:21

Right,
right.
They're
they
have
two
different
meanings.
And
again,
you
know,
when
when
colonization
came
around,
religion
was
being
spread
around,
it
it
made
it
easy
for
it
all
to
just
kind
of
encompass
under
each
other.
And
uh
a
lot
of
it
has
to
do
with
it
being
surrounded
the
uh
the
Catholic
holidays.

SPEAKER_00
5:41

Yeah,
yes.
So,
okay,
so
we
start
the
holiday
starts
October
27th.
So
what
do
you
do
for
the
holiday?
Like
I
know
there's
there's
an
ofrenda,
so
what's
an
ofrenda?

SPEAKER_02
5:56

Yeah,
so
an
ofrenda,
which
is
Spanish
for
altar.
Okay,
um,
and
it
has
the
meaning
of
offer.

Day Of The Dead Vs All Souls

SPEAKER_02
6:05

Okay.
So
um
an
offrenda
is
basically
a
place
where
somebody
puts
either
in
their
house
um
next
to
like
a
fireplace
or
things
like
that,
or
even
sometimes
in
Mexico,
houses
have
an
offrenda
room.
So
um
there's
a
room
dedicated
to,
you
know,
uh
like
a
shrine
to
their
people.
And
so
what
people
are
basically
doing
are
they
decorating
um
their
home,
they
are
um
getting
their
baking
and
cooking
their
people's
favorite
food.
Um,
it's
a
time
where
people
actually
come
together
and
they
are
celebrating
the
life
that
they
are
living
and
the
life
that
their
people
have
lived
too.
It's
almost
like
generate,
like,
you
know,
passing
down
the
the
lineage
and
and
the
the
tradition
and
the
the
family
tradition.
So
it's
a
time
to
come
together
and
celebrate.
So
you're
gonna
see
not
only
in
people's
homes,
but
in
in
small
towns
in
Mexico,
or
not
even
small
towns,
but
just
like
big
towns
too.
They
decorate
their
like
um
the
town
square,
their
homes,
the
streets
are
covered.
And
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
the
decorations
are
what
we
are
what
are
marigolds.
And
in
Spanish,
they're
called
simpatchulis.
I
think
I
said
that
right.
Um,
because
it's
a
it's
a
long,
complicated
word.
Um
and
it
it's
just
covered,
and
then
there's
like
the
decorative
paper
that
has
like
different
designs
on
them.
They're
called
papel
picados
or
poked
paper,
and
that's
just
through
the
through
the
streets
and
at
people's
homes
and
stuff,
and
and
you
just
see
everyone
kind
of
coming
together
for
that.

SPEAKER_00
7:49

So
so
we
we
have
an
affrenda,
we
have
an
altar,
and
so
there's
meaning
behind
all
the
things
that
you
put
there,
correct?
Yes.
So
you
always
you
have
a
candle.
What's
the
meaning
of
the
candle
for
that?

SPEAKER_02
8:04

Yeah,
so
specifically
the
candle
is
to
represent
the
element
fire.
So
there's
different
elements
that
are
represented
on
an
offrenda,
and
it's
the
main
four
elements.
And
so
the
candle
represents
the
fire,
and
that
is
to
provide
guidance
and
um
guidance
to
the
altar,
guidance
from
the
land
of
the
dead
to
the
land
of
the
living.
And
it's
it's
like
a
beacon
for
the
souls
to
know,
okay,
this
is
where
I'm
going.
This
is
this
is
where
I'm
heading
towards.
And
um
the
other
elements
that
are
also
on
the
ofrenda
is
uh
we
got
water,
and
that
can
be
represented
by
actual
water
that
people
put
on
the
offrenda.
Um,
it
could
be
represented
too
in
other
liquid
forms
because
you
know,
we're
all
different
and
we're
human
and
we
like
different
things
to
drink.
Right.
So
there's
different
elements
or
there's
different
elements
of
the
of
water
or
liquid
on
the
offenda,
and
that
is
for
the
souls
to
quench
their
thirst
because
it's
a
long
journey.
So
once
they
make
their
journey,
they
have
they
have
something
to
drink
because
of
it.
And
um,
so
there
were
an
earth.
Earth
is
represented
by
the
marigolds.
So
the
marigolds
are
very
important.
Okay,
they're
important
because
not
only
do
they
guide
by
the
by
the
by
the
bright
color
that
they
are,
um,
but
also
because
of
their
smell.
Marigolds
have
a
very
specific
smell
that
the
souls
can
smell.
And
so
it
brings,
so
not
only
is
it
smell,
but
it's
sight
to
to
guide
them
back
to
their
altars
and
to
their
families.
And
so
um
you
can
you
can
see
that
kind
of
being
really
represented
in
in
the
movie
Coco.
They
have
that
big
bridge,
if
you've
seen
it.
Yes,
and
the
bridge
is
made
out
of
marigold
leaves
and
and
petals.
So
it's
beautiful
to
to
just
imagine
just
all
of
that
in
in
real
life.
And
so,
so
that
marigolds
are
represented
by
earth.
So
we
had,
and
then
I
think
wind,
right?
Yeah.
Wind
is
represented
by
the
papel
picado.
So
it's
it's
believed
that
when
the
wind
passes
through
the
paper,
that's
our
person's
soul
coming
to
um
to
be
present
and
to
be
and
to
be
with
them.
And
so
every
time
you
see
it
in
the
wind
or
you
know
it
moving,
it
it's
that
to
represent
that
the
souls
are
there.

SPEAKER_00
10:37

And
that's
that
pretty
colorful
paper
that's
kind
of
like
to
have
different
designs
cut
out
that
you
see,
and
you
can
make
it
yourself
as
well,
too,
right?
Same
thing
with
the
marigolds,
you
could
do
it.

SPEAKER_02
10:46

Yeah,
yeah.
So
there's
different
things
on
on
on
on
like
Google
or
things
like
that.
Like
you
can
print
out
stencils
and
just
cut
out
the
stencil

What An Ofrenda Really Is

SPEAKER_02
10:55

and
put
it
on
tissue
paper,
and
you
can
have
your
own
your
own
puppet
big
gallo
that
way.
Um,
so
yeah,
it's
it's
pretty
easy
to
make.

SPEAKER_00
11:05

Uh,
and
then
there's
also
food,
right?
That
you
put
out
there.

SPEAKER_02
11:09

Mm-hmm.
So
food
is
a
big
thing,
especially
within
within
the
Latino
culture.
You
know,
food
is
something
that
brings
people
together.
It's
supposed,
it
not
only
brings
people
together,
it
can
help
mend
a
broken
heart,
it
can
help
bring
comfort.
You
know,
so
food
is
a
big
part
of
the
culture.
And
so
food
is
definitely
represented
for
the
for
uh
on
the
altar
as
well.
A
lot
of
times
people
cook
the
people's
or
their
person's
favorite
food.
Um,
sometimes
they
cook
the
food
that
they
might
um
uh
uh
had
loved
or
that
they're
known
for.
Like
if
it's
a
family
who's
a
baker
or
something
like
that,
they
they
make
the
they
make
bakery
items
and
stuff.
There
is
a
specific
bread
that
sometimes
is
on
the
on
the
altar.
Um
it's
called
Bande
Muerte
or
Muerto,
and
it's
basically
uh
bread
of
the
dead.
And
and
why
it
why
it's
that
is
because
the
bread,
um,
the
way
that
it's
made,
they
um
put
like
bread
on
top
of
like
texture
bread
to
make
it
look
like
bones.
And
it's
supposed
to
be
bread
that
they
can
take
back
home
with
them
or
back
to
the
land
of
the
dead
with
them.
So
they
can
take
food
with
them
so
that
they're
not
so
that
they
have
um
food
for
their
travels
back.

SPEAKER_00
12:32

Okay.
And
probably
if
somebody
wanted
that,
they
could
probably
get
it
in
any
um
uh
like
Mexican
bakery
or
that,
probably.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah,
basically.
Yeah,
and
then
then
the
skulls,
because
you
see
that
all
the
time,
but
I
don't
think
what
do
they
those
represent?
A
lot
of
people
don't
even
know
what
those
mean.

SPEAKER_02
12:51

Yeah,
so
the
skulls
um
or
calaveras,
they
um
they
represent
how
the
lit
how
the
living
and
the
dead
are
connected,
because
we're
all
we
all
are
a
skeleton,
right?
And
then
um,
and
so
that's
how
we're
connected,
and
that
is
to
show
that
there's
life
and
death
and
that
we
can
coexist
and
we
can
and
we
can
celebrate
that.
And
so
it's
not
to
meant
to
be
scary,
although
sometimes
it
could
be
scary.
It's
not
meant
to
be,
and
that's
why
they're
colorful
too,
to
show
that
it
it's
it's
a
skull,
and
we
can
we
are
not
it's
nothing
to
be
afraid
of.
And
so
the
colors
can
sometimes
even
mean
different
things,
you
know,
purple
um
can
be
like
royalty
or
they
were
a
hierarchy
within
the
family,
like
it
could
be
a
great-great-grandparent.
So
their
skull
might
be
colored
purple.
Red
couldn't
could
mean,
you
know,
they
were
um
they
were
married,
you
know,
the
couple
that
it
could
have
been
a
grandma
and
a
grandpa
that
passed
away,
and
so
their
skull
might
be
might
be
red
or
something.
And
um,
sometimes
the
skulls
have
their
person
that's
died,
their
name
on
it,
too.
So
it's
another
representation.
And
two,
in
the
altar,
I
forgot
the
most
important
thing.
There's
pictures.
There's
pictures
of
their
person,
and
so
that's
where
you
get
to
place
the
pictures
um
of
who's
passed
on.
Sometimes
it
can
go
all
the
way
to
the
great,
great,
great
grandparents,
you
know,
if
if
that's
how
long
the
lineage
has
been.
So
yeah,
that's
that's
really
cool
about
what
we,
you
know,
how
we
incorporate
our
people
and
things.

SPEAKER_00
14:30

And
so
does
each
day,
since
it's
essentially
a
week,
does
each
day
represent
a
different
family?
Like
we
just
said,
the
pets
start
start
the
week
off.
Is
there
a
certain
way
it
goes?

SPEAKER_02
14:42

Yeah,
so
um
each
day
represents
a
certain
soul
that
we
focus
on
for
that
day,
right?
So
like
the
the
27th
was
the
um
our
pets,
right?
We
remember
pets.
The
28th
is
remembered
for
uh
souls
that
had
suddenly
died
or
through
an
or
had
died
through
an
accident,
okay,
right?
The
29th
is
for
souls
that
may
have
possibly
drowned,
you
know,
so
they
they
were
drowning
or
um
thing
or
something
with
water.
Um
the
30th
has
to
do
with
remembering
souls
that
maybe
don't
have
any
more
family
living
and
um
can't
continue
the
the
tradition
for
them.
So
like
in
the
movie
Coco,
they
talk
about
the
for
the
forgotten
souls.

SPEAKER_01
15:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_02
15:33

Um
it
was
a
little
dramatized
for
just
for
the
sake
of
you
know
movies.

SPEAKER_01
15:40

Right,
right.

SPEAKER_02
15:41

Yeah,
you
know,
it's
okay.
Yeah,
but
no,
in
the
in
the
tradition
is
we
do
remember
forgotten
souls.
So
that
is
on
a
specific
day.
So
that
was
the
30th,
and
then
the
31st
is
remembering
ancestors,
our
great
grandparents,
great
great-grandparents,
and
then
the
first,
November
1st,
is
where
we
remember
children,
so
souls
that
may
have
died
as
children
or
as
infants,
and
then
November
2nd
is
where
we
would
encompass
everyone,
and
that's
when
a
lot
of
times
that's
the
big
celebration.

SPEAKER_00
16:11

Oh,
okay.
Yeah,
okay.
And
so
you
can
put
out,
I
mean,
like
you
said,
you
can
put
out
your
a
friend
out
with
everything.
Do
you
have
to
like
wait
each
day
before
you
put
the
pictures
and
things
like
that
out?
Or
you
can
put
everything
out
and
just
do
you
say
prayers
then
during
that
time,
or
you
can.

SPEAKER_02
16:30

Each
family
does
it
differently,
just
some
tradition,
you
know,
just
regular
traditions
like
Christmas
or
Hanukkah,
or
you
know,
um,
you
know,
the
way
that
we
observe
the

Candles Water Marigolds And Wind

SPEAKER_02
16:40

holidays
is
gonna
be
different
in
each
family,
right?
And
so
that's
the
same
thing
with
the
los
muertos.
You
know,
there's
it
some
people
put
out
an
ofrenda
all
on
the
first
day,
right?
Okay.
And
there's
other
people
that
that
stick
to
the
days,
you
know,
very,
very
specifically.
Um,
but
yeah,
each
day,
um,
I
know
that
sometimes
on
certain
ofrendas,
there's
certain
diff
there's
different
candles.
There's
candelabras
on
the
ofrenda
sometimes,
and
that's
where
sometimes
people
put
like
specific
candles
for
the
specific
days
and
and
they're
lit
like
that.
Um,
so
it
it
really
does
depend
on
the
on
how
people
want
to
celebrate
it.

SPEAKER_00
17:20

And
then
um
what
was
I
gonna
say?
I
was
gonna
say,
so
they
can
they
can
pretty
much
do
whatever
they
can
decorate
it
their
ofrenda
any
way
they
want,
but
they
should
always
incorporate
those
certain
things,
the
elements
with
and
then
the
pictures
in
that,
right?

SPEAKER_02
17:37

Yeah,
that's
what
that's
what
makes
it
part
of
like
it
being
for
the
de
los
muertos,
right?
That
these
are
the
specific
items
on
the
ofrenda.
Um,
sometimes
people
keep
their
ofrendas
up
all
year
long.
Okay.
And
um,
so
it
it
starts,
it's
just
like
how
some
people
keep
up
Christmas
trees
all
year
long.

SPEAKER_00
17:54

Right,
yeah,
why
not,
right?

SPEAKER_02
17:56

Yeah,
it's
the
same
thing
for
the
ofrendas,
and
um
and
yeah,
it's
it's
all
incorporating
just
the
the
tradition
of
where
it
came
from
and
where
it
started.

SPEAKER_00
18:07

So
how
does
this
holiday
honor
grief?

SPEAKER_02
18:12

Yeah,
right.
Um,
I
think
that
this
holiday
is
a
holiday
that
gives
permission
to
celebrate
and
to
honor
and
to
remember,
um,
to
remember
our
loved
ones
in
in
a
way
that
doesn't
have
to
feel
heavy.
Because
I
think
a
lot
of
times
within
grief
we
we
have
those
heavy
feelings,
we
have
that
heaviness,
right?
And
then
two,
there's
sometimes
this
misconception
that
grief
has
to
be
heavy.
And
the
the
heavier
we
feel
with
sadness
or
with
guilt
or
with
somberness,
that
um
that
that
means
we
love
our
person
even
more,
right?
Right.
But
that's
a
misconception
because
love
is
part
of
remembering
and
honoring
the
remembering
the
good
times,
the
funny
things,
you
know.
Sometimes
our
people
have
said
some
funny
things
and
it
just
pops
in
and
we
just
are
laughing,
right?
And
sometimes
we
feel
that
guilt,
there's
that
misconception
that
I'm
I'm
laughing.
Why
should
I
be
laughing?
I'm
I'm
supposed
to
be
sad.
But
the
thing
about
the
other
Los
Muertos
is
that
it
honors
the
other
part
of
grief,
the
part
that
we
can
remember
and
celebrate
our
person,
celebrate
the
life
that
they
lived.
Um,
remember
what
the
what
they
taught
us,
right?
And
remembering
how
how
did
they
continue
the
the
lineage,
you
know,
within
the
family.
So
I
think
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
celebration.
It's
a
it
it
honors
grief
by
celebrating
their
life,
honoring
their
life,
and
not
only
that,
but
honoring
our
life
and
connection
with
them
too.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00
19:56

Yeah.
And
then
it
can
I
I
feel
like
it's
a
way
to
bring
healing.
Do
you
think
that
this
particular
holiday?

SPEAKER_02
20:04

I
think
so.
I
think
it
definitely
brings
healing
in
the
sense
that
we
can
it
it
continues
connection,
right?
And
continues
tradition.
It
um
it
allows
us
to
to
be
silly
and
remember
um
our
people,
eat
their
favorite
food,
right,
and
be
around
family.
And
we
and
sometimes
we
need
that
in
order
for
for
uh
growth,
right,
within
within
our
grief
and
how
we
process
grief.
It
we
need
sometimes
connection
and
family
connection.

SPEAKER_00
20:40

And
then
like
we
were
saying,
it's
not
a
somber
holiday
at
all,
it's
a
celebratory
holiday
for
people.
And
you're
gonna
be
able
to
do
that.

SPEAKER_02
20:48

Yeah,
and
some
people
are
gonna
cry,
you
know.
Some
people
will
cry,
yeah,
that's
gonna
happen,
but
but
there
is
more
of
the
undertone
of
let's
let's
party,
let's
have
a
festival,
let's
let's
enjoy,
let's
enjoy
life
and
and
the
life
we're
living
and
the
life
that
was
lived.

SPEAKER_00
21:04

I
saw
some
pictures
uh
in
some
videos
of
the
celebrations
in
Mexico,
and
I
was
like,
oh,
I
still
want
to
go
during
that
week.
It's
like
really
something.
And
some
of
them
are
even
in
the
cemeteries,
is
that
correct?

SPEAKER_02
21:18

Yeah.
Oh,
it
I
mean,
this
isn't
just
in
someone's
home.
It's
in
it,
it
really
does
sometimes
center
around
the
the
cemeteries
and
the
grave
sites
um
because
that's
where
their
people
are,
right?
That's
where
they
were
laid
to
rest
a
majority
of
the
time.
And
um
people
gather.
It's
gathering
in
the
cemetery,
gathering
in
the
in
the
town
square,
at
home,
in
the
in
the
neighborhoods.
Yeah,
it's
it
extends
far
behind
the
house.

SPEAKER_00
21:49

With
it.
Is
it
celebrated
different
in
different
countries?

SPEAKER_02
21:54

Yeah,
uh,
you
know,
uh
that
was
really
interesting
for
me
because
I
did
have
to
do
some
research.
You
know,
um,
because
sometimes
you
think,
oh,
it's
only
in
a
certain
spot
or
certain
Latino
um
countries,
and
then
finding
out
that
not
every
country
in
South
America
celebrates
it.

SPEAKER_00
22:12

Oh,
okay.

SPEAKER_02
22:13

Only
a
few.
All
of
Mexico
celebrates
it.
The
United
States
has
celebrated.
But
what
I
thought
was
really
interesting
was
that
Italy
celebrates
it.
Oh.
And
um,
yeah,
Italy
and
um
uh
the
Philippines.
And
so,
and
then
that
I
put
kind
of
two
and
two
together,
those
two
countries
have
a
really
big
Catholic
problem
too.
So
I'm
like,
oh,
well,
that
makes
sense,
right?
Right.
And
so
Italy
and
the
Philippines
are
they
don't
do
it
for
a
whole
week
from
what
I
was
looking
up,
but
it
was
um
it
but
it
is
on
November
2nd
that
they
do
observe
it
and
celebrate
it.
And
what
was
kind
of
interesting
was
that
they
also
go
to
the
cemeteries
and
the
graves
to
um
to
be
with
their
loved
ones.
And
food
is
a
big
thing.
They
they
bring
their
food
and
drinks
and
things.
Um,
so
they
they
find
a
way
to
honor
and
remember
their
loved
ones
too.

SPEAKER_00
23:12

Yeah,
I
I
could
see
that.
Yes,
Italians,
we
are
very
much
about
food
as
well.
With
that,
with
that
too.
And
as
we
were
saying,
like
with
grief,
you're
able
to
talk
about
your
loved
one
and
like
you
say,
give
yourself
permission
to
to
really
celebrate
them
and
even
maybe
your
great
grandparents,
even
if
you
never
knew
them,
right?
You
know,
you
can
really
like
do
and
and
all
the
pictures
and
things
like
that,
and
think
about
all
those
stories
with
it,
with
it,
and
you
don't
always
necessarily
have
to
feel
sad
about
it
with
that.

SPEAKER_02
23:49

Yeah,
it
it's
a
time
for
for
families
to
come
together,
it's
a
time
for
within

Skulls Photos Food And Meaning

SPEAKER_02
23:55

those
gatherings
to
learn
about
where
you
come
from,
where
your
family
comes
from,
why
certain
maybe
there
was
something
that
the
family
does
now
because
the
great
grandparents
established
it.
And
so
knowing
that
this
is
the
way
that
we
do
certain
things
in
the
family,
it's
because
of
that.
And
so
now
you
know
why
that
happens,
right?
Yeah,
so
I
I
think
it's
a
really
great,
great
holiday
to
to
celebrate
and
just
understand
family
in
general.

SPEAKER_00
24:32

And
it
and
it
also,
like
you
said,
gives
yourself
permission,
because
it
is
about
it
really
is
about
grief,
but
it's
about
remembering
them
and
not
just
how
they
died,
but
how
they
lived
as
well
for
that.
And
and
what
if
somebody
is
doesn't
believe
in
spirits
or
anything
like
that?
Can
they
do
you
think
they
could
still
find
healing
with
this
holiday?

SPEAKER_02
24:55

I
think
so.
I
think
so.
Um
I
think
how
someone
can
find
some
healing
in
in
this
holiday,
whether
they
believe
in
spirits
or
souls,
I
think
being
just
around
people
that
are
in
a
certain
state,
which
is,
you
know,
the
the
celebration,
the
the
coming
together,
the
festivals,
the
parades.
Um,
it's
really
hard
not
to
get
caught
up
in
that
type
of
energy.
And
it
could
happen,
you
know,
someone
just
might
not
be
too
caught
up
in
the
energy,
but
I
think
being
around
it
and
maybe
observing
it
and
just
how
someone
is
is
absorbing
it
just
can
can
be
helpful
and
in
their
way.

SPEAKER_00
25:42

Well,
and
it
also
kind
of
represents
the
fact
that
our
loved
ones
are
always
with
us,
not
just
for
that
week,
but
you
know,
whether
you
see,
you
know,
when
you
like
I
always
tell
the
story
that
my
mom
loved
peeps,
you
know,
the
little
and
so
anytime
I
see
peeps,
I
think
of
her,
you
know.
And
so
like
I
and
as
a
matter
of
fact,
they
have
Day
of
the
Dead
peeps
too
now
with
the
Halloween
peeps,
you
know.
So
things
like
that
to,
or
I
or
she
loved
Barry
Manilow.
So
whenever
I
hear
a
Barry
Manilow
song
pop
up
out
of
the
blue,
like
I
okay,
she's
saying
hi
to
me,
you
know,
and
it
kind
of
helps
people
because
I
know
sometimes
people
have
a
hard
time
believing
and
that
there's
still
still
with
them
with
it.

SPEAKER_02
26:23

Yeah,
it
it
is
a
really
hard
and
maybe
abstract
concept
sometimes
to
to
um
put
yourself
in
that
situation
or
put
your
mind
in
the
in
the
fact
that
they're
a
spirit
or
a
soul
or
that
they
have
this
ability

Each Day Honors Different Souls

SPEAKER_02
26:45

to
um
do
some
signs
or
I
like
to
call
them
little
winks.
They
they
give
us
winks
that
they're
you
know
still
around.
It's
hard
to
to
kind
of
wrap
your
mind
around
that
a
little
bit,
especially
if
no
one's
ever
really
lived
it
growing
up,
or
um
just
haven't
hasn't
been
around
that.
Um
and
I
think
that
it's
that
that's
okay
too.
You
know,
it's
I
think
everyone
is
entitled
to
believe
what
they
want.
And
um,
and
sometimes
too,
you
know,
all
holidays
are
not
for
everybody
either.

SPEAKER_00
27:20

Right.
You
know,
and
so
so
it's
it's
okay.
Yeah,
you
know,
and
I
I
like
I
said
I
wanted
to
talk
about
it
because
I
did
not
understand
everything
that
went
with
it
until
and
lightweight
presents
a
wonderful
event
every
year
uh
for
about
this
holiday.
And
I
learned
so
much,
and
I
I
felt
a
lot
of
healing
and
peace
with
it.
Like,
oh
yeah,
especially
when
I
heard
about
the,
you
know,
your
pets
that
was
like,
oh,
I'm
kicking
this
off
with
my
pets
and
I
have
pictures
there,
and
then
you
you
have
pictures
and
you're
like,
oh,
they
love
this
and
they
love
that,
and
it
just
felt
like,
oh,
you
know,
it's
that
time
where
you
really
do
remember
them
and
welcome
them,
not
just
like,
you
know,
say
at
Christmas
and
you
feel
sad
that
they're
not
there.
You
know,
so
it's
a
holiday
where
it
is
about
saying
it,
yeah,
I
miss
you,
and
yeah,
I
want
you
here,
but
you
know,
here
I
got
all
your
favorite
things,
you
know,
and
and
and
celebrate
what
their
life
was.
Like
you
said,
talk
about
all
the
the
funny
stories
that
they
that
they
did
with
it
on
those
types
of
things
for
it.
And
I
was
like,
I
had
no
idea
like
the
history
and
everything
that
went
into
because
it's
like
a
really
cool
holiday,
I
think.

SPEAKER_02
28:30

Yeah,
and
and
to
kind
of
go
back
to
what
you
had
asked
about,
like
it's
not
uh
or
that
some
people
can
confuse
it
with
Halloween.
And
the
thing
about
Halloween
is
that
traditionally
where
that
came
from
is
a
a
Celtic
um
yeah,
uh
roots,
right?
So
we
if
for
Halloween,
we
dress
up
with,
and
back
in
the
day,
the
reason
why
it
looks
so
scary
in
some
of
the
scary
costumes
was
because
traditionally
what
it
is
is
to
to
ward
off
like
not
so
good,
maybe
evil
spirits,
right,
right
and
confuse
them,
right?
Right.
And
and
that
and
day
of
the
day
of
the
dead
is
the
opposite.
You
know,
we're
we're
wanting
to
welcome
the
the
spirits
and
the
souls
and
uh
of
our
loved
ones,
you
know,
to
come
back.
And
so
um
that
that's
where
I
think
sometimes
it
can
be
a
little
bit
misconception
because
of
just
that
they're
so
close
together.

SPEAKER_01
29:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02
29:30

But
again,
it's
again,
it's
because
of
the
Catholic
religion
that
it
just
it,
you
know,
took
over
and
decided
to
make
it
easy
for
everyone.

SPEAKER_00
29:38

Yes,
it
was
we
have
the
Irish
to
think
for
Halloween.
It
was
Salmon.
Salmon
was
the
Celtic
fest
for
it.
So

How Celebration Supports Grief Healing

SPEAKER_00
29:45

so
look,
see,
I
got
both
my
I
I'm
Irish
and
Italian,
so
I
have
both,
you
know.
I
I
got
it
both
there
uh
with
it.
And
actually
it
wasn't
Jack
Landers,
it
was
turnips
that
they
got
up
first.
But
so
uh
There
you
go.
Yes,
see
with
that.
But
I
I
think
it
still
blends
well,
uh,
because
I
could
see
I
uh
I'm
surprised
Ireland
doesn't
do
it.
It
was
probably
because
of
Halloween
and
that,
but
I
I
could
see
where
it
would
fit
right
in,
you
know.

SPEAKER_02
30:10

Yeah,
well
actually
Ireland
does
does
do
um
the
Day
of
the
Dead.
They
do
it
on
or
um
celebrates
the
Day
of
the
Dead.
Now
what
the
name
is
that
they
that
they
call
it,
but
it
is
observed
on
November
2nd.

SPEAKER_00
30:23

Okay,
that
makes
sense
because
of
you
know
the
Catholic
faith
there
and
stuff
like
that.
And
you
don't
have
to
be
Catholic
to
celebrate
the
holiday
either.

SPEAKER_02
30:31

No,
not
at
all.
If
anything,
that's
what
I
say
when
uh
when
I
when
I
do
the
the
um
the
event
here
at
Lightways.
Yeah,
you
don't
have
to
be
Latino
to
celebrate,
you
don't
have
to
believe
in
anything.
If
this
resonates
with
you,
how
we
celebrate
it,
adapt
it.
You
know,
take
it
on.

SPEAKER_00
30:49

Exactly.
Yeah,
but
it's
just
a
way
for
you
to
be
able
to
acknowledge
your
grief
and
be
able
to,
like
you
said,
celebrate
it
and
not
feel
so
because
it's
not
a
somber
holiday
at
all,
you
know,
and
it's
a
way
kind
of
hopefully
maybe
bring
you
some
healing
and
feel
close
to
your
loved
ones,
you
know,
especially
if
maybe
you're
not
so
sure
about
it,
but
just
to
be
able
to,
you
know,
have
their
things
around
as
well
and
make
it,
you
know,
and
you
get
to
be
creative
because
you
can
put
make
your
friend
up
any
way
you
want,
really.
With
it.

SPEAKER_02
31:21

Yeah,
and
that's
that's
what
we
like
to
do
within
the
within
the
program
that
we
do
for
lightweight,
the
way
that
we
designed
it.
So
back
in
2019,
um,
we
went
to
the
National
Mexican
Museum
in
in
Pilson.
It's
a
it's
a
free
museum,
um,
so
anyone
can
go.
And
the
every
year
around
this
time,
they
do
something
for
the
de
los
muertos.
So
we
went
uh
the
grief
support
team
went
as
a
field
trip
to
to
check
it
out
and
and
learn
about
it
more.
And
when
we
saw
and
heard
the
different
things
uh
of
that
goes
on
in
the
ofenda
or
how
to
even
create
an
ofrenda,
we
just
kind
of
brainstormed
together
like,
okay,
how
can
we
bring
this
to
our
grieving
population
back
in
Joliet?
And
um,
and
not
even
just
in
Joliet,
because
when
COVID
hit,
we
did
do
the
program
still
uh
virtual.
So
um
we
figured,
you
know,
let's
provide
the
tools,
let's
provide
the
things,
and
let's
let's
you
know
celebrate
and
maybe
provide
a
new
way
to
connect
with
people
with
our
people
that
have
died,
and
how
can
we
still
honor
and
remember
them
in
that
way
too?

SPEAKER_00
32:38

Right.
And
even
if
somebody
just
starts
out
and
they
just
have
their
picture
and
a
candle,
that's
you
know,
however
they
want
to
make
their
altar
and
do
it,
and
just
know
that
there's
another
way
that
you
can
maybe
find
some
healing
with
your
grief.
You
know,
it's
a
holiday
that
says
we're
bringing
our
love,
we're
welcoming
our
loved
ones
back.
Yes.
For
that.
Uh
anything
else
that
you
think
people
should
know
about
this
holiday
or
the
ofrenda
or
anything
like
that?

SPEAKER_02
33:08

Um
I
really
just
think
it's
a
it's
um
it's
it's
a
pretty
holiday.
I
I
it's
very
pretty
and
beautiful
and
and
welcoming.
And
and
that
even
though
if
people
have
tears
or
f
still
have
sadness,
that
it's
that
it's
still
okay.
That
it's
still
okay
to
be
sad
in
a
moment
where
everyone
is
celebrating
because
it's
still
part
of
grief.
You
know,
it
has
a
it's
a
it's
a
big
umbrella.

SPEAKER_00
33:39

Yes,
yes,
it
is.
It
really
is,
yeah.
And
it's
yeah,
it's
the
way
you
can,
like
you
said,
have
all
the
emotions
and
know
that
that's
also
time
that
you
can
take
for
yourself,
you
know,
if
you
want
recognize
it
for
that.
And
another
good
way
too,
if
you're
really
not
sure,
watch
the
movie
Coco,
because
that's
a
really
good,
it's
a
really
good
movie.
It
really,
they
really
explain
it
well,
I
think.

SPEAKER_02
34:03

Yeah,
and
and
if
if
anyone
is
ever
interested
too,
they
could
take
a
deep
dive
and
how
the
the
illustrators

Adapting The Tradition And Closing

SPEAKER_02
34:11

were
very
conscious
of
how
to
connect
the
tradition
within
the
within
the
culture
of,
you
know,
like
it
when
you
go
into
the
land
of
the
dead
in
the
movie,
um
the
way
that
the
houses
are,
I
thought
this
was
interesting.
The
way
that
the
houses
and
everything
are
connected
are
actually
supposed
to
look
like
tree
roots
to
signify
the
roots
of
a
family
and
generation
and
tradition.
So
I
thought
that
was
really
cool.
So
they
were
really
meticulous
about
it.

SPEAKER_00
34:42

Yeah.
And
it
kind
of
gives
you,
you
know,
learn
more
about
it
for
it
as
well.
Yeah.
For
that.
Well,
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
today.
So
thank
you.
I
I
am
very
excited.
Like
I
said,
I
I
I
get
into
the
holiday
now
that
I
never
knew
anything
about
before.
So
now
I
know.

SPEAKER_02
35:01

So
I
love
that.
I
love
that
you
were
able
to
come
to
our
to
our
event
and
then
you've
adapted
it
to
to
to
you
and
your
family
and
have
and
are
still
continuing
it.
I'd
love
to
hear
that.

SPEAKER_00
35:14

Yeah,
because
I,
you
know,
it's
like,
oh,
if
I
can
make,
you
know,
I'm
thinking,
oh,
what
can
I
make?
You
know,
because
my
mom
was
a
really
good
baker
and
my
grandma
and
stuff
then,
you
can
like
start
putting,
you
know,
because
I
usually
have
pictures
around
anyway,
and
things
that
they're
that
they
had
loved
and
stuff
like
that
around
my
house.
But
it's
kind
of
a
nice
way
to,
you
know,
make
your
little
altar
and
kind
of,
you
know,
just
set
that
time
aside
as
well
for
it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02
35:41

I
think
it's
important
to
always
set
some
time
aside,
right?
But
it
but
sometimes
it
can
be
easier
to
set
the
time
aside
when
it's
a
holiday.

SPEAKER_00
35:49

True.
Very
true.
Yes,
yes,
I
can
be
for
it.
Well,
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
today.
And
hopefully
everyone
everybody
has
learned
a
little
bit
more
about
the
day
of
the
dead.
Maybe
they'll
celebrate
it
themselves
as
well.
So
so
hopefully
you
have
found
this
uh
episode
enlightening
and
you
learned
some
new
things
for
the
for
another
fall
activity.
It's
not
just
about
Halloween
for
that.
So
hopefully
you
enjoyed
your
cup
of
coffee
or
cup
of
tea,
or
that
was
a
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine,
and
you
will
join
us
for
another
edition
of
Patty's
Place.

Posted on

Claudia’s Story – FROM THE VAULT

Claudia’s Story: (From the Vault)
Series Note: This episode is the Third release in a special series of replays from the Sober.Coffee vault, featuring Mike and Glenn while they take a sabbatical.

Sober.Coffee Podcast (Episode B30)

Hosts: Mike & Glenn

Guest: Claudia

Episode Overview

Mike and Glenn pull up a chair for a table of three with fellow AA member Claudia. Celebrating her three-year sobriety anniversary (1,096 days), Claudia shares her experience, strength, and hope. Her central message: you are never too old to get sober and mentally healthy—a journey she began at nearly 50 years old.

The Roots & Escalation

  • Childhood Insecurities: Growing up in a comfortable family without alcoholic parents, Claudia was thoughtful, earned good grades, but suffered from extreme, painful shyness and underlying anxiety. She developed a habit of seeking validation in people, places, and things to feel secure.
  • Early Adulthood & Relationships: After marrying young and divorcing at 26, Claudia lacked the emotional sobriety to navigate life independently. She struggled with codependency and carried unaddressed childhood baggage.
  • The Escalation: Claudia remarried and raised two daughters. The real turning point came around 2008 when she lost her downtown job during the financial crisis while serving as the family’s primary financial support. Financial stress and fear triggered heavy drinking just to cope with daily tasks like calling bill collectors.
  • The Wake-Up Calls: Claudia received her first DUI in 2011. Although shaken in a victim impact panel, she rationalized it as a bad choice rather than a deeper problem. By 2019, drinking escalated around the clock to manage every emotion, whether happy or sad.

The Turning Point: Surrender & Honesty

  • The Bottom: Claudia’s second DUI landed her in jail overnight—a moment where she felt her Higher Power step in and say she had suffered enough. The following morning was the darkest day of her life, realizing the danger she had put others in and the trauma it caused her family.
  • Telling Her Daughters: With her husband’s encouragement to get to a meeting, Claudia sat down with her daughters (then roughly 10 and 14). She openly admitted her problem and promised to fight for recovery. Seeing the immediate look of relief and lightness wash over her children became the ultimate motivator to stay sober.

Key Recovery Insights & Tools

  • Developing Emotional Sobriety: Quitting alcohol was only step one; Claudia had to learn emotional sobriety through AA, literature, and regular step work. As Glenn and Claudia note, emotional maturity often halts at the age drinking began, requiring intentional internal growth.
  • Remembering the Wreckage: Claudia keeps the memory of that second DUI night close. Remembering the potential wreckage—that her daughters could have lost their mother—serves as a vital tool to prevent picking up a drink during hard times.
  • Fellowship & Sponsorship: Claudia leans heavily on her sponsor and a close-knit group of women connected through Zoom meetings during the COVID-19 pandemic. She now sponsors other women, passing on the lesson to meet people where they are at and take things one day at a time.
  • Living Through Life’s Storms: Since getting sober, Claudia has navigated job loss and the death of family members without ever wanting a drink, firmly believing that placing trust in a Higher Power rather than people, places, or things is what sustains true peace.

Resources & Support

Posted on

Batman Science and Cleopatra’s Hydration

The guys discuss how you only have 362 days to plan for panda sex, when engaging in a “fresh start” could cause you to bleed out, and why where you BRING your kid matters more than where you LEAVE your kid in relation to being a deadbeat dad. 

Posted on

Why Stretching Makes Your Acute Back Pain Worse (Do This Instead)

Did your back just give out while bending over, tying your shoe, or picking up laundry? 🏋️‍♂️ In this video, Dr. Gerry (Doctor of Physical Therapy) breaks down the exact 3-step playbook to de-escalate acute lower back pain, stop muscle spasms, and recover fast without fear or unnecessary MRIs.

Learn why intense back pain is a nervous system sensitivity setting…not proof that your spine is “broken.” Also, get the exact step-by-step protocol to reset your alignment, find your directional preference, and use movement as medicine.

TOPICS & TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 – The Back Pain Epidemic & Why It Happens
1:40 – De-Escalating the Initial Shock & Panic
3:00 – Pain Science: Why Back Muscles Clamp Down
3:50 – Screening Emergency Red Flags (When to See a Doctor)
6:07 – Flexion vs. Extension: Finding Your Directional Preference
8:21 – Sensitivity Meter vs. Damage Meter Explained
10:35 – Art of PT (1-on-1 Sports PT in Naperville, IL)
11:25 – STEP 1: Decompress & Downregulate the Alarm System (90/90 Position)
13:38 – STEP 2: Reset Alignment & Directional Preference (Wall Glides & Press-Ups)
16:58 – STEP 3: Vascular Walks & Dynamic Movement
19:11 – The 48-Hour Acute Back Pain Playbook (Modify, Protect, Avoid)
22:54 – How to Get Back to 100%

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DISCLAIMER: All content is for educational & entertainment purposes only and does not constitute medical/PT advice or establish a provider-patient relationship. Consult your doctor before starting any exercise program.
#backpain  #physicaltherapy  #lowbackpain  #rehabtips  #backpainrelief  #spinehealth 

Back pain. My favorite thing to talk about as a physical therapist. I’m kidding, but not really. Back pain. It’s number one thing I see as a PT. I see it every day. Everybody gets it. It’s It’s all over the place. Um, so in this video, I want to talk about what you should do when back pain strikes. It’s the number one thing I see as a PT. Like I said, I see it all the time. I’ve seen, you know, teenagers with it, older people, obviously, um, middle-aged people like myself. It’s it’s all over the place. And I’ve seen so many different sides of back pain, different types of back pain. And it’s so subjective because again, pain is a subjective experience, right? And especially with back pain, it it’s all over the place sometimes and it can be scary. I’ve had so many people tell me about back pain. Their their back pain hurts more than the kidney stones they’ve had or I’ve had people tell me their pregnancy felt better than their back pain. And they always hurt themselves doing something so mundane like bending over to pick up, you know, something a thing of laundry or picking up something that fell on the floor like a pencil. Someone last week told me that they were trying to tie their shoe and their back just kind of gave out, right? So many different types of stories like this that I hear all the time. It’s happened to me. I remember twisting to grab something for a patient one time and my back felt like it just blew up and it was not fun and I was walking like like Gumby for a while. But, you know, again, scarier than it seems. But so again, this video I want to talk about things you could to do to kind of deescalate the situation of your back pain of your back pain episode because again, it’s always scarier than it seems, but it’s not anything you can’t get over. It’s just the initial shock that always stuns people like, “Oh, I need something drastic for this or I’m damaged forever.” which is not the case because again myself I’ve had really bad back pain for um man I think I had it for about a year and a half uh when I was around 27 28 and it took forever to get better but you know I didn’t do anything besides obviously physical therapy which I love and other things that we’ll talk about but this video again is more so like if back pain just happened and you’re in shock and you don’t know what to do. So, the first thing is more so, you know, especially if you’re watching this and you have like a heating pad on right now or or you’re just kind of chilling trying to stretch it out, terrified to bend over, right? I’ve seen it all the time. Every time someone hurts their back, they’re afraid to do that same move that hurt them initially, right? Like they bent over to to pick up some laundry, right? And they don’t want to do that again. They’re just like, “Oh my god, this is something that’s going to hurt my back again.” Which is not the case. So again, thinking about it this way is your brain sends these signals, these massive alarm signals to yourself, causing the surrounding muscles after the pain episode to just tighten up and to guard and to be super aggressive in that guarding. And they clamp down on your spine like a vice, right? And the intense pain is more so of an emergency threat response. It’s not proof that your spine is broken or damaged. And again, it’s hard for people to kind of think about this, but pain is not always an indicator of tissue damage or damage in general, right? And that’s where we kind of have to deconstruct your pain. So, three-step plan, I’ll talk about it here in a second, but first, let’s talk about red flags. And again, it’s important to screen out anything medically crazy going on, any red flag signs going on because again, back pain can be scary. At the same time, if there’s no none of these red flags, it can be rehabbed. It can get better with physical therapy. So, I’ll I’ll link something in the description about, you know, these red flag signs. I’m not going to read them all out right here, but again, when it comes to back pain, if you’re having sudden loss of bowel or bladder control, if you have numbness or tingling in your inner thighs called saddle anesthesia or in the groing area, if you have if your foot just all of a sudden just drops and it just starts slapping on the ground, that’s a sign of pretty bad nerve damage. We call that foot drop. If you don’t have any of those things and other things I’ll link in the description, again, your pain can be rehabbed. And if all that is screened out, it’s pain. It sucks. I get it. But you need to rehab the pain and work at it. So again, all that signals that we could work on it and it’ll get better with a thorough evaluation and PT plan, which again, I know is not what people want to hear. They want to get better now. It’s it’s a whole process and they don’t want to exercise to get rid of the pain or be active to get rid of the pain because initially movement just feels like a chore and it hurts a lot and it it stinks to move. Um so but again as I I always say we’re living organisms. We need to be moving and adapting. We don’t adapt by doing nothing. We adapt by moving and circulating that blood and joint lubrication and all that good stuff. So, and again, I do want to emphasize that pain is different for everybody. Pain is a subjective experience by definition. It could be different for everyone. And it’s it’s not a one-sizefits-all. I’ll do my best to give some general advice here, but the best thing to do is always to get a thorough assessment by your physical therapist. And if your symptoms are more localized and it’s sharp and it’s more of a guarding type pain, this three-step process that I’ll walk you through will definitely help the pain. So, let’s talk about first some back pain patterns that I usually see when patients come in and see me for physical therapy. Usually, your spine has a preferred direction when it comes to pain. Meaning, let’s say you bent over to pick something up and then again your back just felt like it gave out or blew up. However you want to describe it, it sounds it’s a sudden shock to your system, right? Usually when that happens, your body does not like flexion or bending over, right? And every time you bend over, you get that sharp pain. It hurts. Your muscles guard and it stinks and you don’t ever want to do it again. Usually when that happens, your body prefers extension or arching back. The opposite of flexion or bending forward. So if you were to test this on yourself right now, stand up slowly, place your hands on your low back if you have pain with bending over and try to arch arch backwards. If that feels better, that means that’s your preferred direction right now. Your back prefers spinal extension or arching back. And that’s something we can kind of work on that gives us more clues as a PT to tailor your rehab plan. And again, that’s the usual clinical pattern that I see with with back pain. There’s also the the idea of centralization versus peripheralization, meaning the pain will centralize or peripheralize. And if it centralizes, the pain goes back up into your spine. It’s not radiating anywhere. It’s not tingling down your hip, down your glute, down your thigh. That’s usually more nerve- related usually. Um, again, it’s all it’s it’s always different, but if the pain is more localized in your back, that’s kind of what we want and that’s a better prognosis when it comes to healing your back pain. Um, not to say that if it is peripheralized or radiating into your glutes or even down your leg into your foot that it can’t get better. it it can get better as well. But usually if it centralizes or come comes back towards your spine, that’s something that we want and that’s that’s a good thing. I know it sucks and it sometimes it gets more sharp in your low back, but that’s a better sign that it means that it’s getting better. Okay, let’s talk some more neuroscience of of pain. And I don’t want to get too much in the weeds of this, but it’s more so about spasming and again just pain in general. So, you know, let’s say you bent over and again, you felt that sharp pain or you’re tying your shoe, you’re bending over to pick up a pencil, whatever it is, pick up a sock, um, a book, whatever it is, sharp pain ensued. And think of it as whatever structure in your back just got irritated, a disc, a facet joint, uh, which thankfully I have a little model right here. The discs are these guys in between each vertebrae, which are the bones in your spine. The facet joints are these kind of joints on the side right here. If those get irritated, sometimes your brain makes it more of a threat than it is. And they get irritated for whatever reason. You know, maybe you’re just stuff happened. It’s it was a weird position for yourself. They got a little bit irritated, but again, your brain magnifies it even more. And it’s not necessarily a sign of something that’s crazy damaged. Something irritates those structures doesn’t mean that they’re permanently damaged. The brain activates muscle tension in the area and then a crazy spasm ensues. Right? your spinal erectors, your the quadrus lumboreum muscle, which are these muscles on the side, the erectors that run down your spine, like big long bands of tissue of muscle. And so, think of it more so as the intensity of your pain is more of a measure of your brain’s sensitivity setting, not the actual damage in your back, in the tissues of your back. So, in other words, pain, especially when it comes to back pain, because I, again, I see it all the time clinically, is more so a sensitivity meter than a damage meter. And it’s a big reframe in your mind to think about pain that way. Um, but it’s very helpful when it comes to pain. It doesn’t scare you as much when these things happen. So, let’s kind of walk you through these three steps of what to do when back pain strikes. And quick pause. This video is brought to you by Art of PT. It’s my physical therapy practice here in Neapville, Illinois. It’s all personalized. It’s all individualized. It’s all one-on-one physical therapy. So, if you are an athlete or someone who does the high rocks or plays a lot of pickle ball or jiu-jitsu person or combat sports, you go to the gym all the time, you’re around Neapville and something hurts, I’m here to help. Come check us out. Again, it’s all personalized. It’s not the like the usual corporate physical therapy place where the PTC see three patients at once. It’s all individualized to you. So, check us out. It’s arttopt.com. The link is in the description. It’ll go right to us. Tell us your story. We’ll get you back to 100%. I promise. Back to the episode. The first thing that you want to do, and again, this is more this is customizable to you. So you can customize it as you see fit. I’m going to try to walk you through the process here if this just happened. If again you something happened, you bent over, your back hurts a lot, it’s day one, day two, and it’s still kind of on high alert. So the first thing you want to do is to decompress or turn down the alarm system. And what I mean by that is you can decompress yourself by elevating your legs. There’s a Instagram reel I just did on this and which we can pull up here in a second. And you want to put your calves on a chair in a 9090 position, like 90 degrees of hip flexion, 90 degrees of knee flexion. And when you’re in that position, when your calves are on the chair, what you want to do is take some big deep breaths, relax, try to calm down your nervous system. And again, I did a an Instagram reel, which we can pull up, that is perfectly suited. Here it is right here. So, if you hit play on this, here’s me doing some um cat cows, which we can talk about here in a second, but and me talking, but this is what I mean. So, here’s my feet and my legs are up on a chair. I’m taking big deep breaths, decompress, decompressing my back, trying to get everything to relax. So, we could pause it right there. And then so that’s kind of decompressing and turning down the alarm system. That’s what I mean by decompression is that position I showed you in that Instagram reel. And also regulating your breath, your breathing, which also turns down your nervous system, your sensitivity system, your alarm system, which is your sympathetic nervous system. So different positions for everybody too. Like that’s the one that I found generally that helps people. You could also just lay on your stomach, on the ground, on the, you know, on a bed, um, on lay on your side, whatever position is better for you. Try to breathe, try to relax, try to decompress, but that’s the one that I found that helps a lot of people. Step two is this is a little bit more in the weeds here, but I’ll try to explain as best I can, is you want to find your directional preference, which is what I talked about earlier. Do you prefer extension right now? Do you prefer flexion? It depends on the back pain um and what happened initially. But you also want to reset your positioning or your alignment. Right? A lot of times if people have back pain like let’s say they have you have right-sided low back pain. Right? Now if someone has rights sided low back pain usually not all the time they tend to lean away from the pain. So they develop this posture to get away from the pain which makes sense because it’s a threatening stimuli stimulus. So your body tries to get away from it. So let’s say right side low back pain, they develop like a left side lean to get away from it. So what to do in that instance is if you have that kind of, you know, painful lean away from the pain, you want to do something called wall slides or wall glides, which I don’t have a video on, but I’ll put a link in the description on. Essentially, you want to put your left arm on the wall kind of towards where you’re leaning towards since your pelvis is kind of coming out to the right side because you’re leaning away from the pain. Forearm on the wall. You’re leaning that way. And you want to push your pelvis into the wall a little bit. Kind of correcting that posture to essentially straighten yourself back out as opposed to developing that chronic lean away from the pain because you don’t want that either. You don’t want to be walking around crooked all day. So you want to have do your best to get back your normal alignment and be yourself again, right? So depending if you have a lean away from the pain, you do some wall glides and again after that you want to find your directional preference. You want to find if flexion is better for you, which can happen, or extension is better for you, bending or extending or arching back. Usually people have an extension bias. they like extension for pain that they have bending over. So, I’m going to give you an example of this. So, let’s say again you’re bending over is not your best friend. You hate it. It hurts. It’s it gives you a six or seven out of 10 pain. What you want to do is do the opposite. You want to do some press ups. You want to do some laying on your stomach to have your your spine in a little bit of extension. Press ups. Again, it’s hard to visualize possibly maybe, but I’ll put a video in the description again. And it’s more so laying on your stomach and doing some gentle kind of like cobra poses in yoga, gentle press ups, putting your spine more into extension and generally that relieves the pain of the bending over. So you want to do the opposite of what hurts essentially. So gentle extension, gentle pressing up from your belly helps that type of flexion pain. Also, if people have pain with extension, I’ve seen this a lot with with gymnasts or volleyball players, people who go into forceful extension, they prefer more flexion. And what you want to do with that is more flexionbased treatment, active treatment, like a a stretch into a prayer pose, right? A three-way prayer pose, some sort of flexion that we can teach you as physical therapists. And you want to find which one is better for you. Step three is my favorite and it’s in my Instagram reel. If we could bring that up again. Um, it’s my favorite because it gets you moving more and that’s exactly what I’m doing right there at the end is walking. So, you know, you could call them vascular walks. Uh, walking is great for a lot of things. It’s great for back pain because again, doing them, I don’t know, let’s say every hour, right? You want to find your limit. And if you can only walk for five minutes and the pain starts coming back, that’s okay. That’s your limit for right now. Eventually, you want to build on that. Walking is a natural fluid pump. Circulation, it’s all great for your back. Essentially, what you want to do is not is to do something and to not lay on the couch all the time because that’s worse. Your body gets stiffened up. It gets tighter. There’s no blood flow. Your back starts to get even more tight. It’s a whole cycle. you don’t want to go through. So, what I recommend usually is every hour, get up, walk, whatever you can tolerate, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever you can, and then kind of go from there. Build on it because again, it will get better. And maybe one day, the first day you do five minute walks every hour, the next day you do eight minute walks every hour, 10 minute walks, and then before you know it, the pain is pretty much gone after a week or two. more of a again this is a three-step approach but it’s try to customize it to yourself. So do your best to decompress the area downregulate your nervous system. Step two would be to find your directional preference fix your alignment if needed. And step three is to get more active to walk. It doesn’t even have to be walking. You know an elliptical is fine. Doing some gentle elliptical training is completely fine as well. Walking is just the easiest thing to do because it’s such a human thing to do, right? And you can just get up and start walking. So, very customizable. Customize it to yourself. If you need help, you could obviously message me on Instagram or send me an email. So, that’s the three-step process. I want to walk you through kind of the first 48 hours of, you know, really bad back pain because again, when it, especially when it first happens, it’s like such a huge shock to people that they just start freaking out and they’re like, “Oh my god, I need an MRI or something just I’m everything is my spine is broken.” But so here’s like your little 48 hour playbook. What to do in the first two days. The first thing you want to do is modify your activity. Avoid prolonged static positioning like sitting or laying down all day and just waiting and hoping and praying that it goes away because again prolonged static positioning like prolonged rest increases stiffness in your back. It delays functional recovery. And again the our favorite saying as physical therapists is motion is lotion, movement is medicine. I mean everybody says it now because it’s true. We’re not trying to make you move to hurt yourself more. It’s going to make you feel better better. Initially, it might not feel great, but after a while, you’re like, “Oh, this actually does help.” Because again, blood flow, circulation helps everything. So, first thing to do is to modify your activity. Meaning, don’t just lay on the couch and do nothing all day. Second one is protect. protection I put. Meaning like if bending over does hurt a lot, it’s okay to avoid that for 24 to 48 hours. If you need to pick up something like a grandma and just do a squat and grab something, that’s okay initially, but eventually you want to get out of that and not be afraid of that. So, we start training into more bending over. But again, initially you want to avoid those things because it is so irritable to yourself and your back. So, avoid those things for a little bit. Don’t push it and just try to force it. it’s just going to make your body more it’s going to turn up the alarm signals even more and you don’t want that. So protect it for 24 48 hours. And the third thing to do is to avoid any aggressive stretching, meaning like static stretching, meaning like just, you know, a a prolonged hamstring stretch, a prolonged back stretch, aggressively stretching your low back, your hamstrings, all that stuff. If it’s already super tight and you’re just kind of pulling on it the whole time, it’s again, it’s going to tell your nervous system to just turn up the alarm system even more, your the signals even more, and it’s going to be even more irritable. So, gentle movement, gentle exercises, actually dynamically moving is much better than just prolonged static stretching. So, avoid that. So, again, three things, modify, modify your activity, avoid prolonged rest. Number two is protect the area. If bending over hurts, avoid that for the first 24, 48 hours. And number three is avoid aggressive static stretching because that could just keep pulling on tight tight muscles, making it worse. Hopefully that all made sense. That’s all things I see every day as a physical therapist is explaining these kind of like these this three-step process and you know lifestyle modifications because again initially that shock of back pain is just it’s so it it kind of changes the way you think about pain you know especially when it happened to me I remember when I first had really bad back pain it’s like oh I don’t know what’s going on and again being the physical therapist working in a PT clinic at that time it was just it was it was really bad but you Initially, you want to definitely stay optimistic about it. Nothing horrible is going going to happen. It’s just the first 24 48 hours are always the scariest. And then after that hump, it gets better and better. I promise. So, if you’re someone with back pain and you’re struggling with back pain and you don’t know what to do, you can definitely reach out, especially if you’re in Neapville. Um, my physical therapy clinic is called Art of PT. website is in the description. It’s artf.com. We work with athletes and active adults, people who especially nowadays doing all the high rock stuff, crossfitters. I get a lot of pickle ball people who just jump in and they hurt themselves. I get obviously my jiu-jitsu guys, people who do Muay Muay Thai, uh any type of grappling. Um the average weekend warrior, gym person, gym rat. So, I’m here to help all you guys in Nepville. And it’s all personalized. It’s all one-on-one physical therapy. It’s not the usual physical therapy corporate company who sees four patients at a time or three patients at a time because I remember doing that and I hated doing that. So, it’s all one-on-one. It’s all you get all the attention that you need and that’s how physical therapy should be. So, I’m here to help. Whether if you’re in Neapville or if you’re someone who’s watching and you’re not in the area, we could definitely work together online. I do remote rehab coaching. So, I have a lot of clients with that as well across the country. So, it’s something that I I definitely love. It’s a different set of rehab that we could do a whole assessment through video like this. Uh a full movement assessment, full rehab plan customized to you for your back pain. I I’d love to help you out. And I also have my free newsletter in the description which is called the PT Handbook. It’s completely free. I do a lot of back pain newsletters because again it’s something I see all the time. And so that’s on there. My Instagram, which you pulled up for a little bit, is apt.g. You could message me on there. I’m pretty readily available on there. I’m always kind of posting some reels or or some advice. So, you can message me on there. If your back hurts or something else hurts, your shoulder hurts, your ankle hurts, your you slept weird, and your neck kind of feels funny, and I see that all the time, too. I’m here to help. Um, there’s my Instagram right there. You guys can message me on there. It’s uh something I I definitely I’m very active on, and people message me all the time. So, I love answering your your injury and pain questions. And so, yeah, hopefully this video helped. Back pain. I’ll do more videos on back pain. Such a complex topic, back pain or just pain in general that I’ll I’ll keep kind of adding to these to these videos. But hopefully that all helped and I’ll see you guys next time. Peace.
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Why Everyone Wanders Off Into The Woods-Interview with Lincoln Stoller

I would love to hear from you. Send me questions or comments.

Caregiving can turn your whole nervous system into a smoke alarm, and when dementia enters the picture, even “normal” conversations stop working. We talk with Lincoln Stollert, a quantum physicist, neuropsychologist, hypnotherapist, and clinical counselor, about how to rebuild stability when you are carrying grief, responsibility, and constant uncertainty. If you have ever felt trapped in a crisis mindset, this conversation offers a path back to balance that is both compassionate and practical.

We dig into what psychedelic medicine can be across cultures and clinical settings, and why Lincoln sees psychedelics less as a miracle cure and more as a psychological accelerant. The key is learning how to “drive” first: grounding, intention, and the ability to land on your feet. That leads straight into hypnosis and reframing, including how guided imagery and relaxation can help you access a calmer state, then look at stress from a steadier angle.

From there, we get concrete about caregiver self-care and neuropsychology: sleep hygiene, breathing, movement, rhythm, attention skills, and how your environment can funnel you into habitual tension. We also talk about dementia communication when logic fails, why entering your loved one’s reality can reduce distress, and how boundaries protect your health without turning you cold. Lincoln also shares brain training tools like EEG headsets (including Muse) and why measurable feedback can help you strengthen focus over time.

If this helped you feel less alone and more equipped, subscribe, share the episode with another caregiver, and leave a review so more families can find these tools.

https://www.mindstrengthbalance.com/

Support the show

Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_00
0:10

Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where we're going to talk about grief, dementia, and caregiving. I started this podcast in honor of my mom, Pat, who passed away from dementia almost three years ago. I'm your host, Lisa. So grab your cup of tea, your cup of coffee. If you're having that really bad day, a glass of wine, and come join us and know that you are not alone. Today our guest is Lincoln Stollert, and he is a quantum physicist,

What Psychedelic Medicine Can Be

SPEAKER_00
0:32

neuropsychologist, and hypnotherapist, clinical counselor, and author and educator. So welcome, Lincoln, to Patty's Place.

SPEAKER_05
0:41

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00
0:42

So uh you one of the questions you have here is what is psychedelic medicine and what could it be?

SPEAKER_06
0:52

Um well I don't know what to uh uh is the baseline here.

SPEAKER_04
0:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
1:00

Because it's been appropriated or it's attempted to be appropriated by Western psychology.

SPEAKER_01
1:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
1:10

And it's got a tradition of various cultural and religious uses that are ancient. And um so uh, you know, if people come from the recreational use of the 60s through the 80s and so forth, they'll have one point of view. Okay, if they come from a medicinal or cultural background, they'll have another point of view. Okay, and if they come from this sort of modern psychology, they'll be told of a third point of view.

SPEAKER_01
1:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
1:46

So uh they're all kind of different. You know, recreational, it was supposed to be fun, I guess. Uh psychologically, it was supposed to be healing, and culturally it was supposed to be uh enlightening. It could be all of those things, or one positive and the other negative in any mix, really, depending on your experience and your objective.

SPEAKER_04
2:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
2:13

So I guess I could say it could be any of those if you have the right approach. Could be fun, could be enlightening, could be healing.

SPEAKER_04
2:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
2:21

And if you do it wrong, it could be destructive or not fun, and um, you know, close your mind.

SPEAKER_00
2:30

Okay.

Learning Means Breaking Patterns

SPEAKER_00
2:31

So with your mind, can you kind of explain? Like, how does your brain learn?

SPEAKER_06
2:39

Um, I kind of think that there are two kinds of people: the ones who like to learn and the ones who well don't. Or don't much. I mean, you can't not learn because everything you do is a reaction to your environment. But you can reframe things or you can rearrange things so that in the larger sense your strategy works better and you understand people or situations.

SPEAKER_04
3:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
3:14

And it usually happens that to rearrange things involves some conflict with the way things are, are supposed to be, or other people want them to be. So I think learning uh gets in it involves with how willing you are to break the pattern.

SPEAKER_04
3:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
3:37

Or to also create a pattern. You may not have one. You may be going into territory that is new and foreign, so you might need to be creative. People often ask for advice. They uh might think that a counselor or a therapist is gonna give them advice. They might think that. And I suppose uh well, unfortunately, I suppose many therapists do that. I mean, it's economics, you know. You give people what they want, you don't sell them a black car if they want a red one. But the fact is they, you know, if they're looking for a red car, they may be just looking in the wrong place. So I think there are tiers of therapists that are incrementally more disruptive in how you think. Okay because in therapy you want to be uh enlightened. So the psychedelics can do that. They're kind of like I'm a kind of an adventure seeker, so they're kind of like jumping out of an airplane, which could be fun and you know, life-changing. It could also be life-ending if you didn't do it right. So I don't think psychedelics are well, you know, psychedelics are not a dangerous class of drugs. They're not like um these other uh analgesics or extreme sedatives that can stop your heart and do other things. So um they're also not well, depending on which drug you're talking about, they're not entirely recreational. I mean, some are, but the really psychedelic ones um they make you too sensitive. And and and often they're not they're not that social.

SPEAKER_04
5:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
5:44

I mean, there are things like MDMA, which is a social drug, and cocaine, which is a social drug. But the psychedelics are are relatively quiet and uh inter, you know, you see yourself within, you you you engage your inner self.

SPEAKER_04
6:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
6:05

I mean, I I I I guess I know people who take mushrooms and LSD recreationally, but I I couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_03
6:12

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06
6:15

I tried with a bunch of musicians to take mushrooms recreationally, but everybody just wandered off into the woods. And and so, you know.

SPEAKER_00
6:24

Yeah. So

SPEAKER_00
6:25

you're a neuropsychologist. What's the difference between a neuropsychologist and just a regular psychologist?

SPEAKER_06
6:31

A big difference.

SPEAKER_00
6:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
6:34

Yeah, a neuropsychologist. Well, again, there are there are types. I mean, you could be a neurologist when you talk about diseases in the neural system, nervous system, or you could be a neuropsychologist, in which case you think about functions and dysfunctions from a neurological point of view. Like what do you what do you react to? Um what are your aptitudes? Uh how how is your emotional balance related to your neurological balance?

SPEAKER_00
7:11

Oh, okay. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_06
7:13

You know, uh things like uh can you relax and go into a calm state, which would be needed to have a good sleep cycle. So people who don't sleep well might have a neurological propensity for anxiety or tension or um you know not wanting to move out of their waking mindset. Because you know when you fall asleep, you have to kind of let go at some point.

SPEAKER_02
7:47

Right.

SPEAKER_06
7:48

And um if if you're neurologically wound up, which could be a psychological thing because you're traumatized or you're under pressure or your environment is is uh tense, but it could also be a habit that you become habitually tense. And see, this is this is the sort of the roundabout situation. If you are habitually tense, even you know, for a week, you tend to create an environment that either supports you, uh, helps you cope, or continues to trigger you. So a high-performance person might get into a high performance job, in which case they're always expected to be able to jump at a moment's notice, and then they could become very stressed. So the the whole thing, so this there's the neurology of what you're what you've adapted to, there's the environment that you created for yourself. Okay, and um there's the psychology of how you're thinking. So a neuropsychologist, well, at least in my point of view, you see, I'm kind of a generalist. I think you have to do all those things.

SPEAKER_04
9:06

Right.

SPEAKER_06
9:06

I think it's makes no sense to insist that only one approach is going to be suitable for anyone.

SPEAKER_02
9:15

Right.

SPEAKER_06
9:16

I mean, even, you know, I have schizophrenic clients, and you say, Oh, that's definitely a neuropsychological problem. But the point is that to some extent they can learn to adjust. They're not going to become not schizophrenic, but they may not become paranoid and uh triggered by the confusion. I mean, it depends. The the most serious ones, I guess I don't get, because you have to be fairly functional to come to a counselor, especially somebody like me who demands you to think and respond somewhat rationally.

SPEAKER_02
9:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
9:56

I mean, it it you know, schizophrenics aren't all that rational.

SPEAKER_02
9:59

Right.

SPEAKER_06
10:00

Well, they have their own sense of rationality in my experience, you know.

SPEAKER_02
10:04

Right.

SPEAKER_06
10:05

They'll think one thing which doesn't make sense, but they're consistent sometimes.

SPEAKER_00
10:10

Right, it makes sense to them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06
10:12

You know, yeah. So neuropsychologist is like, what is that aspect? How much of that is going on? And is it changeable? Or, you know, can it be uh voluntarily changed? I'm not a pharmaceutical guy.

SPEAKER_00
10:28

Uh well, no, and sometimes you that's not always the answer either, you know, pharmaceuticals. Sometimes it just isn't. And I know that I've I've been reading a lot about like somatic with that, and how like you were describing with your nerves, how it almost gets trapped in your body.

Somatic Ways To Exit Crisis Mode

SPEAKER_00
10:49

Like, what are ways that you can, especially like when you're in the middle of being a caregiver or that, you are always tense because things are always going on. Like, what can you do to try to just try to relax your body to get out of that? Because it's hard once it's trapped, you don't even know how to get out of it.

SPEAKER_06
11:08

I generalize again there, you know, don't focus just on your body. I mean, yes, focus on your body, right? But not just on your body. You're recognize that your environment is funneling you, narrowing you into this traumatic situation. Well, traumatic for probably everybody, but uh that you can't live there and be a help. You have to be able to visit in order to empathize.

SPEAKER_05
11:46

But you can't uh believe it's the only reality.

SPEAKER_06
11:53

So that's the psychological answer to your question. And the uh somatic answer is you've gotta let your body adjust to the alternative, which is a non-traumatized so you know, yoga, exercise, breathing, good sleep, um, good diet, these are all somatic things. Okay, becoming aware of the energies in your body, giving yourself time to relax thoroughly, not just in your tense spots, but you know, in your knees and your ankles and your toes and your fingers. So anything that helps you, so playing music is anything that's rhythmic, anything that has a different rhythm instead of the cacophony of crisis, something that has and demands you that's why playing an instrument is good, because it demands you pay attention to it, otherwise you can't do it very well.

SPEAKER_04
12:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
12:56

So, you know, a keyboard, a guitar, whatever it is, and you know, to get away from the idea that you have to be good at something in order to do it. I hate that idea that only experts should read, you know, novels or act in a community theater. You know, it's like everything you do can be adjusted to equilibrate your your system.

SPEAKER_04
13:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
13:27

Balance is like essential. So I like to walk, I can't do it very well anymore, on a slack line, which is like a tightrope, but it's loose. But you can do the same thing by just walking on a line, painted on the ground.

SPEAKER_04
13:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
13:43

I mean, you could try to walk on the curb, but you might fall off.

SPEAKER_04
13:47

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_06
13:48

Twist your ankle. Exactly. Quite literally. Yeah. But you can walk on a line, which is not all that much easier if you actually try to stay on it.

SPEAKER_00
13:56

Yeah, it's not as easy as it sounds. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06
13:58

Not as easy, right? Because you give yourself excuses to have stepped off it. But if you pay attention, it it focuses you. And getting out of the crisis mentality, it's the same advice I'd give to somebody who's anxious. It's the same stuck state of mind. And again, there's a neurological aspect to it. You've become accustomed to it. You become anxious when you're bored, you don't have the ability to relax, your sleep is disrupted, maybe your gut and digestion is off. And um to some extent, you well, you have a great deal of control. Whether what the effect is, I don't know. Uh I've gained a lot of weight, like I'm almost 200 pounds, I should be 160. I can't seem to lose it. So there's there, and the so is my father. So I think there's some genetic stuff you can, it's just an uphill battle.

SPEAKER_05
14:59

Um, but nevertheless, balance, I think, is critical.

SPEAKER_06
15:07

But I name my business mind strength balance. And I think that was prescient because I keep coming back to balance more and more. So getting balance, if you're a caregiver, you know, first thing is you have to have balance. Because you're not gonna be very helpful if you're out of balance. You're just gonna be sort of talk in hollow, you know, parables. And the next step is to help somebody achieve the balance that you may have achieved, but maybe harder for them because they're physically ailing or mentally ailing. So, you know, the um the story that the people in the presence of the Dalai Lama are in a blissful state of relaxation simply because of his presence. Which is, you know, well, maybe, maybe that's true, but maybe they just want to be blissfully relaxed in his presence. Just the way you might feel that way in a church. But there is truth that a person who uh is grounded and deeply calm is calming. Um it you know, people like dogs as pets.

SPEAKER_00
16:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_06
16:33

And cats too, sometimes. But I have more experience with dogs. And you know, they are they uh they imbue a certain kind of positive attitude and um all the things that dogs do, you know, loyalty and and attention and affection. And it lifts people up. My point is that if you can lift yourself up, you'll lift up the people around you. Well, I mean, if they're willing. Some people aren't, but you know, right, right. Hopefully.

Entering A Loved One’s Dementia World

SPEAKER_06
17:08

I mean, the the caregiving thing is difficult because people with dementia can be unreachable or sometimes unreachable.

SPEAKER_03
17:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_06
17:18

And um, you know, like my mother took a long time to die of Alzheimer's. And in the last few years, I would just come in and play the flute or you know, read to her, but I don't think she was aware at that point. But still, you don't know. You really don't. At some point, you you have to just go on faith that you know you're putting positive energy out, and as long as you're not getting panic back, you're probably doing something positive.

SPEAKER_00
17:54

Yeah, I mean, with my mom, like I said, she she didn't know who I was, but she just thought I was this really nice girl that came to visit her, and so that's just how I, you know, yeah, and best you can do. Right. And I just kind of followed her lead with it, you know, because why upset her? There was no point in upsetting her, you know.

SPEAKER_06
18:13

So if well, you know what the only reason to upset her would be that she wasn't who you wanted her to be.

SPEAKER_00
18:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06
18:21

Yeah, you know, forget it. You know, the world moves in different directions from what you want. And you have to follow it or you're not in uh the rhythm.

SPEAKER_00
18:33

And and I think that's the hardest thing for a lot of people when you're dealing with your loved one with dementia, they still want them to be the person that they know, and and they're not.

SPEAKER_06
18:43

Hey, how about your parents? Were they ever the persons you wanted them to be?

SPEAKER_00
18:47

Well, that's yeah, true. Yeah, you know, and it I once I was able to get to that point to just enter her world, it helped so much for me. And I I can think back now and think about some of those moments I shared with her, you know, the like some of the funny things we shared and stuff like that. And it was like, well, so what if, you know, she thought she was at her grandma's house and she was in her memory and she was in memory care. So what? You know, we were at grandma's house, you know. Like what difference did it make? You know, with it. But I know a lot of people have a hard time. Like, how can they not know who I am? And it's like, well, I think on some level they know that you are somebody that they trust, like there's still that bond there, even if they can't verbalize your name.

SPEAKER_06
19:37

You know, I would take it to another level and say that almost everybody you know is not who you think they are. And almost everybody you know has an image of you that's not you. And and sometimes that works out fine.

SPEAKER_01
19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06
19:55

Yeah. And other times, you know, it temporarily gets dislocated. And with some people, maybe quite a lot, it never works out. Yeah, they never understand you. You can explain yourself all day, and that gets to a deeper level of how do you communicate. And most people use words and reason and you know how things work. And that's actually a very weak, a very not not a very convincing way to um reframe things for somebody who doesn't believe it. I mean, I have a client who has a problem with her mother. Her mother is getting older and probably getting a little more demented. And her mother believes certain people in her family are against her, you know, are lying, are are sabotaging. And it seems to be that the people that her mother is developing this adversarial relationship with are the people that her mother was never close to, and that her mother feels are taking something away from her, taking her central role in the family away from her, like her children's in-laws or something. And uh, my client is one of the in-laws, or actually the the daughter of the mother who has in-laws, and she tells me all the reasons that she's given to her mother why she's delusional and why these people are not her enemies and why everyone's trying to help. It makes no difference at all because her mother is not in that frame of mind. She doesn't believe it.

SPEAKER_02
21:38

Right.

SPEAKER_06
21:39

She thinks her daughter's she thinks her daughter is delusional and being misled and uh making up stories. And so it's you know, it's like climbing up a greased pole. It it doesn't work. And so I tell her, you've got to let go of what you want and indulge her. In her fantasy, because that's her reality.

SPEAKER_05
22:02

You're not gonna build a better structure in a land that she won't join you.

SPEAKER_06
22:12

So if it means that you have to admit that your husband is evil, see where it goes.

SPEAKER_02
22:20

Right.

SPEAKER_06
22:20

Because it's only it's only a story.

SPEAKER_00
22:23

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I know um my dad had a hard time with that. And even like, you know, oh well, I'm lying to her. I'm like, well, you're not really lying, you're just going along with things. You know, that's her world right now. And you know, just go with it because it makes life so much easier.

SPEAKER_06
22:42

Not just easier, but it actually I think goes somewhere. There, there is there is a plot to this demented story. And maybe it comes back to their childhood if somebody's really senile and they're talking about, you know, they think you're their mother or something. I think my mother in the end was well, not in the end, she didn't have money in mind at all, but before she lost her mind entirely, she thought she was a child again.

SPEAKER_01
23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06
23:09

And so that that, you know, that might have been a real opportunity because I never really connected with my mother in her childhood, and I don't think she ever did either. So maybe this was an opportunity to find some peace. You know, uh I would look at all these things as opportunities. Why not? Even if they're just an opportunity to meet somebody halfway.

SPEAKER_00
23:42

Yeah, I mean, I always say that I was grateful that I listened to my mom growing up, all her stories, uh, you know, that she would say about, you know, talk about her aunts and uncles and all that. So like she did go back to like her childhood, which on one hand, I wasn't shocked because it was um a happy time, but also a traumatic time for her. And so I think that's where she found the most peace, you know. So I was glad that I paid attention and was able to enter that world so I knew where she was at with things. So when she would mention somebody's name, I was like, oh yeah, you know, and just go with it. It just made it I I guess, yeah, like you're saying, I was able to connect with her even on another level than before with that.

SPEAKER_05
24:29

I I'm not sure it's so it should be hard.

SPEAKER_06
24:33

Uh I the hard people are the ones who really fight you and insist that you're wrong or you're you're you're somehow distorting things or if you've got somebody who who has a happy place and this is what I do as a hypnotherapist I take you to a happy place.

Hypnosis, Boundaries, And Real Change

SPEAKER_06
25:03

I get you to visualize a happy place, I get you to be immersively engaged in it, uh to recreate it, to recall it in its detail. And then I let you bring in negativity.

SPEAKER_01
25:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
25:18

And you know, see it from uh a different, you know, since instead of being off balance, now you're on balance. You know, f imagine your childhood better or the times you're on your childhood was better, and now see what the negative influences in your life trigger or remind you of or make you feel. Because as adults we lose connection with our childhood feelings. We've put them aside. Yeah, people say.

SPEAKER_02
25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06
25:54

As if they weren't there anymore. But they are in the background. And they come up in your dreams and they come up in your nightmares or fears or so for me, therapy, if you want to call it therapy, uh and I you know that has a stigma, so I don't really like calling it therapy. I I prefer calling it coaching or consulting. And I prefer to focus on what you're trying to accomplish rather than what you consider your disability. Like, all right, so what do you want to do in the next year, five years, or ten years? And how can we get there? What's holding you back, what's standing in the way? And how can we turn that into a either not a problem or part of the solution? Most people have skills they're not using because they've uh not been encouraged or rewarded or had the opportunity to use them. You know, you could be you could be very critical, and that could be a skill. Just know how to use it. It you could be very critical because you've spent your life not having boundaries and you know, running over safety margins, and now you've become hyper-reactive. Well, all right. A lot of people don't have good boundaries. I mean, in a sense, you're you're talking about boundaries when you talk about adjusting to a parent's dementia. It's like, what's your boundary? What's the room you want everyone to be in? How do you feel when it doesn't work? You still have boundaries, like your own sanity and health and positive attitude, but it doesn't have to be limited to your version of reality. Could be could be a psychotic version of reality. Well, maybe not psychotic, but you know, delusional at least.

SPEAKER_00
27:52

Right. And I think that is hard for caregivers and sometimes people in general. I know myself, setting boundaries and sticking to them are are can be very difficult for people to do, you know, because sometimes you just want to make everybody happy or make it easier or or or even or just more peaceful, I should say. And sometimes you have to set those boundaries, and it can be very difficult.

SPEAKER_06
28:16

Well, the funny thing is they want you to set they want you to make things easy. And maybe they, whoever they is, doesn't want you to cross certain boundaries. You know, like if you've got somebody who smokes and their lungs are not good, is making them happy avoiding the issue or asking them to confront their health and what they're doing. Because I I've kind of run out of patience with people who are self-destructive unconsciously. I mean, if you want to go, I have one client who tried to kill himself by drowning.

SPEAKER_03
28:58

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06
29:00

But he had to stop because he it was too painful. The water was too cold. And I thought, well, how often do you do you uh are you saved by your bad planning? Usually it goes the other way.

SPEAKER_02
29:14

Right, right.

SPEAKER_06
29:15

But you know, okay, that really was a a reality check for him. And he's you know, and it made him think, yeah, suicide would be great if it was just comfort and peace. But it's not just comfort and peace. Well, maybe if you shoot yourself, it is because you don't have a chance, but it was great that he gave himself a chance to see that he wanted to live.

SPEAKER_02
29:40

Right, right.

SPEAKER_06
29:40

And he had something to live for.

SPEAKER_02
29:42

Right.

SPEAKER_06
29:43

And so often people don't want to be told that they have something to live for, that they're missing the opportunity, or they're not treating their spouse or their children well, and it's gonna they're gonna regret it. They don't want to hear that.

SPEAKER_01
30:01

No.

SPEAKER_06
30:02

But if if that's what you see, maybe that's what you should say. I mean it depends what you're yeah, like you say, is it is your goal comfort and you know, placid social you know, bingo games? Or are you trying to uh foster some evolution in progress? Because I don't I don't find people most people are not they they they're dragged kicking and streaming into their own evolution. So which one do you want to be? Do you want to hold them back with peace and comfort, or you wanna help them move forward by uh you know criticizing some of their decisions?

SPEAKER_01
30:54

That's true.

SPEAKER_06
30:55

And how are you gonna do it?

SPEAKER_01
30:57

Yeah, which it gives them.

SPEAKER_06
30:59

I mean, this may not be the question for a a caregiver. But again, you know, if they're smoking, okay, their doctor will tell them to stop smoking or stop drinking or whatever it is. Stop abusing something, stop abusing their body, take care of themselves, lose weight. I don't know, whatever. So uh, you know, they may not want to talk about those things. I mean, we're not talking about end stage Alzheimer's where I think there's not much you can do that, but you know, provide comfort, if that. We're talking at at a stage where, well, uh anywhere from childhood to uh somewhere where you can react, right? We're talking about dealing with kids too.

SPEAKER_01
31:50

True. True, yeah.

SPEAKER_06
31:53

I mean it I I think one I know kids are very easy to deal with, I find. And I don't know why adults have trouble with their kids. I just don't understand. When you think they're there for you, I don't understand how anyone could think that. But okay.

Resources For Coaching And Self-Care

SPEAKER_00
32:13

So you do have a website, correct? It's uh you just you mentioned it as well.

SPEAKER_06
32:19

Yeah, mind, strength, balance.

SPEAKER_00
32:22

And so on your website, what can people um contact you and other the different some of the resources that they can get?

SPEAKER_06
32:31

Well, I've written a bunch of books.

SPEAKER_00
32:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
32:34

And I do like this. The the topic you started with, the psychedelics, is very close to hypnosis. Okay. Altered state, mood, emotion, um, altered reality, reframing. So I generally don't encourage people to do psychedelics unless they're good at balance and they know what they're trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_00
32:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
32:57

I mean, okay, if you can do it recreationally, but you don't have to come to me for that. So, and I also don't really believe in psychedelics as a pharmaceutical solution. I think they're a psychological um accelerant. And you've got to, you know, know how to drive. You don't get into a sports car and drive 150 miles an hour if you don't know how to drive. So don't take a drug that will accelerate your mind and unhinge you if you don't know how to land on your feet. And on my website, I have uh these inductions, they're audio files of me talking on certain topics that are done hypnotically to make you relax, to make you be immersive, to make you imagine. And uh a lot of them are free, not all of them. Some of them have to do with your body and health, others have to do with your state of mind. So if you go on the website and look under products and look under free, free products, you can find a lot of audiophiles.

SPEAKER_00
34:06

Oh, okay. Because yeah, I see. And I think that's Yeah, you've got stuff here on like coaching and sleep. You said medical support, uh learning.

SPEAKER_06
34:14

So those those are areas, right? If you have got medical support is is close to caregiving, except it's self-care giving. And uh sleep is also self-care giving, but most people don't pay much attention to it. They just think it should, they're just entitled to it.

SPEAKER_03
34:30

Right.

SPEAKER_06
34:32

They don't see that it's like half their life, right? The other half of their life. And uh education has always been a big thing with me learning. So there are books there, there's a tab for books, but books take more effort than an audio file.

SPEAKER_00
34:46

Yeah, you're free here. Okay. Yeah, there's some really cool things on here. Uh, so people can check out for it to help.

SPEAKER_06
34:57

And there's one last thing I should mention.

SPEAKER_00
34:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_06
34:59

Again, in the neurology thing, there are tools to stabilize, strengthen, and balance your brain without regard to whatever your trauma or issue is. Just develop focus. I mean, you could call it attention skills. Uh, they're not all that different from balance as in walking a straight line, but they're mentally walking a straight line. Uh people have heard about mindfulness meditation, and it's right. There's a whole range of things. Um, brain training tools, and I think that's foundational. I think too many people overlook or take for granted their mental abilities as fixed, and they're not. They're skills to some extent that you've learned and can relearn and enhance.

Brain Training Tools You Can Measure

SPEAKER_00
35:48

So, what are what are some like brain training tools that people can do?

SPEAKER_06
35:53

Well, the cheapest ones are little headsets that you put on that monitor your brain waves, then you can imagine your brain waves are not that different from your muscular waves, in the sense that when your brain waves are agitated, then you're agitated. So but you can be oddly, you can be physically calm and mentally agitated. So the benefit of these tools, like these headsets, which cost about from one to three hundred dollars, whether you get them new or not, or more, depending how many bells and whistles you want, is that it lets you see your brain separate from your body. So somatic work, great, but also mental work. And as I say, you can be somatically relaxed and mentally wound up. So um addressing those, what they do, you put the headset on, it measures your brain waves, it works with your smartphone and tells you basically your score, gives you an exercise, tells you how you succeeded in the exercise. And then you can pay more. Unfortunately, they they cost, I think, more than they're worth for most people. Everyone's trying to get you to subscribe to some you know monthly charge. And uh so this headset called the Muse M Use gives you a lets you buy a monthly subscription, in which case they look at your particular brain waves and give you a particular exercise. Because the brain waves aren't quite as monochromatic as they make them out to be. They have different areas that that indicate different levels of attention and anxiety.

SPEAKER_04
37:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_06
37:37

So you can be more specific. And but it's it's worth just starting with it, just to sort of get to understand what your brain waves do. And you know, it can go all the way to neurology. But the I guess the point I want to make is not many psychologists know about this, not many neurologists know about it. It's neuropsychology. Unfortunately, it's a somewhat unrecognized area, central area, which is like stupid. It's as it's as if people hadn't discovered good diet.

SPEAKER_02
38:14

Right.

SPEAKER_06
38:14

And all the it's like and they thought just eating junk food was natural and well, anyway, I could go on. Maybe you get the point.

SPEAKER_00
38:26

Yes, yes. It's all important. Yeah. So it is.

Website, Thanks, And Goodbye

SPEAKER_00
38:31

So your your website, and we will make sure you put that on our link as well, it's mindstrengthbalance.com so people can check it all out and learn how to train your brain and try to relax and put it all together because there's a lot to do. Put it together, right? Yes. So thank you so much for joining us today. I you're welcome. It's been very enlightening for me. So I hope everyone has enjoyed our conversation today. So hopefully you have had a good cup of tea, good cup of coffee, or a good glass of wine, and you will join us for another edition of Patty's Place.

Posted on

Welcome to Sober.Coffee Podcast “Behind the Counter” – FROM THE VAULT

Sober.Coffee Podcast Summary: “Behind the Counter” (From the Vault)

Series Note: This episode is the second release in a special series of replays from the Sober.Coffee vault, featuring Mike and Glenn while they take a sabbatical.

Episode Overview

In this foundational episode, Mike and Glenn step “Behind the Counter” to share the origin story, format, and guiding philosophy behind the Sober.Coffee podcast. Moving their regular one-on-one recovery chats from local coffee shops into the digital space, the co-hosts outline why the show exists, what listeners can expect, and clear boundaries around what the podcast is—and is not.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

  • The Coffee Shop Format & the “18-Minute” Rule:
    • Rather than recording multi-hour discussions, episodes are intentionally framed around roughly 18 minutes—the scientifically observed average time it takes someone to drink a cup of coffee.
    • This concise format aligns perfectly with a typical daily commute, offering a bite-sized serving of recovery insight.
  • The Three-Part Structure: Episodes are structured around three five-minute segments rooted in classic recovery principles:
    1. Experience (0–5 min): Reflecting on the past—the realities of addiction and where they started.
    2. Strength (5–10 min): The “sober gym”—the daily tools, practical actions, and principles used to maintain sobriety.
    3. Hope (10–15+ min): The outcome and promises—what sober life looks like when the tools are applied.
  • Defining the Boundaries (What Sober.Coffee Is NOT):
    • Not Official AA: While 12-step recovery is an integral part of their personal journeys, the show adheres to the tradition of attraction rather than promotion and does not represent Alcoholics Anonymous.
    • Not “Big Book Thumpers” or “Bible Thumpers”: The discussion is grounded in real-life application, candid language, and personal experience rather than rigid dogma.
    • Not Experts or Politicians: Neither host claims clinical authority or political alignment; they speak strictly as peers sharing lived recovery journeys.
    • Not a Commercial Venture: The podcast is non-profit driven; community donations go directly toward studio production and running costs rather than personal profit.
  • Your Story as Your Greatest Asset:
    • Glenn shares a perspective gained during an early sunrise coffee chat: while people often view “assets” purely in financial terms, one’s greatest personal asset in recovery is their story—specifically the willingness to share past struggles and the tools used to overcome them to help others.
    • Mike illustrates this with the “renovated room” analogy: to truly appreciate the finished basement or remodeled room, you have to show the “before” pictures first.
  • Upcoming Roadmap & Community Engagement:
    • The hosts highlight plans to break down the 12 Steps across their initial run of episodes, followed by thematic discussions drawn from practical meeting takeaways and listener suggestions.

Memorable Takeaways

“We’re just going to be at the intersection of desperation and hope.”
“Your biggest asset is your story… what you’ve been through, and the fact that you’re willing to open up and share it.”

Show Resources & Contact Info

  • Website: sober.coffee
  • Listener Feedback & Topic Suggestions: podcast@sober.coffee
  • Social Media: Instagram (@sober.coffeepodcast) | Twitter/X (@sobercoffeepod)
  • Support Lines Mentioned:
    • AA Hotline: 800-839-1686
    • Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: 988 (Legacy: 800-273-8255)
Posted on

Understanding Frontotemporal Dementia-Interview with Sarah Lopata

I would love to hear from you. Send me questions or comments.

Dementia doesn’t always start with forgetting. Sometimes it starts with a personality shift that feels like a stranger moved into your house, a sudden loss of empathy, a scary change in judgment, or speech that just won’t come out right. We’re joined by Sarah Lapata from the Association for Frontotemporal Degeneration (AFTD) to unpack frontotemporal degeneration (FTD) in plain language, with the details families actually need when they’re trying to make sense of what’s happening.

We talk about why FTD is a leading cause of young onset dementia, why it can be misdiagnosed as Alzheimer’s or a psychiatric disorder, and why the path to an accurate diagnosis can take years. Sarah explains what makes FTD different, what “anosognosia” means when a loved one truly can’t see their own symptoms, and how that lack of insight can turn everyday life into conflict, especially around safety issues like driving. We also walk through the FTD umbrella, including behavioral variant FTD, primary progressive aphasia, movement-related syndromes that can resemble Parkinson’s, and the overlap some people face with ALS.

We get into genetics, what “sporadic” vs “familial” can mean, and why meeting with a genetic counselor can help you think through testing without pressure. We also highlight palliative care as a holistic support that can start earlier than most people assume, plus the value of support groups and the AFTD helpline for real-world strategies and relief.

If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with someone who’s caregiving, and leave a review so more families can find it when they need it most.

AFTD – The Association for Frontotemporal Degeneration

Support the show

Welcome To Patty’s Place

SPEAKER_00
0:17

Welcome
to
Patty's
Place,
a
place
where
we're
gonna
talk
about
grief,
dementia,
and
caregiving.
I
started
this
podcast
in
honor
of
my
mom,
Pat,
who
passed
away
from
dementia
almost
three
years
ago
now.
I
am
your
host,
Lisa.
I
want
this
to
be
a
place
where
you
know
you're
not
alone
and
we
can
have
these
difficult
conversations
and
hope
we
can
just
guide
ourselves
through
this
challenging
times
for
it.
So
grab
yourself
a
cup
of
tea,
a
cup
of
coffee,
or
if
you're
having
a
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine,
and
we
will

Meet The FTD Expert Guest

SPEAKER_00
0:44

get
started.
I'm
very
excited
about
our
guests
today.
So,
because
you
know,
as
I
talked
about
before,
there's
different
types
of
dementia.
So
we're
gonna
talk
about
a
particular
type
of
dementia
today.
So
my
guest
is
Sarah
Lapata.
She
is
with
the
Association
for
Front
to
Frontotemporal
Degeneration.
Hopefully
I
said
that
correctly.
Okay,
welcome,
Sarah,
to
Patty's
place.
Thank
you.
So
thank
you
so
much.
So
what
is
FTD,
as
you
call
it?

What Frontotemporal Degeneration Means

SPEAKER_01
1:17

Sure.
Um,
thanks
again
for
having
me
here
today.
Um,
frontotemporal
degeneration
refers
to
a
group
of
brain
disorders
caused
by
degeneration
in
the
and
damage
and
death
of
the
frontal
and
temporal
lobes.
So
you
may
have
heard
of
frontotemporal
dementia,
frontotemporal
lobar
degeneration,
and
PICS
disease.
Um,
it
presents
with
behavior
or
communication
or
movement
symptoms
and
is
frequently
diagnosed
between
the
ages
of
45
and
60,
which
makes
it
a
leading
cause
of
young
onset
dementia.

SPEAKER_00
1:59

Wow.
So
how
is
it
different
from
other
dementias?

How FTD Differs From Alzheimer’s

SPEAKER_01
2:05

That's
a
great
question.
So
um
when
people
think
about
dementia,
I
think
a
lot
of
people
automatically
go
to
memory,
right?
They
think
about
Alzheimer's.
That's
kind
of
what
people
are
familiar
with.
Um,
but
unlike
Alzheimer's,
memory
often
remains
intact
in
early
stages
of
FTD.
Yeah.
So
you
might
see
um
uncharacteristic
behavior
or
communication
or
movement
symptoms.
That's
the
those
are
the
symptoms
that
um
people
see
with
FTD.

SPEAKER_00
2:40

So
just
like
it's
they're
like
not
their
self,
like
in
the
way
they
react
to
different
things
or
their
feelings
and
stuff
like
that.

SPEAKER_01
2:47

Uh
yeah,
exactly.
Okay.
Yeah.
And
sometimes
one
of
the
things
that
really
stands
out
for
a
lot
of
people
is
they
notice
that
their
loved
one
um
seems
like
they
don't
have
empathy
or
they
seem
apathetic.
Uh,
they
don't
want
to
do
anything
that
they
used
to
want
to
do.
Um,
so
it
can
feel
like
very
confusing.
Um
and
and
that's
and
that's
really
common
in
FTD.

SPEAKER_00
3:12

Okay.

Why Diagnosis Takes So Long

SPEAKER_00
3:14

Why
does
it
take
so
long
to
get
a
diagnosis?
So
I
was
doing
research
on
the
website,
and
I
noticed
that
was
one
of
the
first
things
that
struck
me.
Why
does
it
take
so
long?
Yeah,
that's,
I
mean,
it
really
does
take
a
while.

SPEAKER_01
3:26

Um,
the
average
is
3.6
years
to
get
an
accurate
diagnosis.
Um,
for
some
people,
they
can
get
it
pretty
quickly,
but
for
most
people,
it
is
a
very
long
journey.
Um,
because
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
goes
into
making
the
diagnosis
challenging.
Um,
one
thing
is
that
FTD
is
what
we
say
um
is
heterogeneous.
So
that
means
like
there's
a
significant
diversity
in
how
symptoms
present.
If
you
have,
say,
like
um,
if
you
have
a
beh
the
behavioral
variant
of
FTD,
it
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
all
of
your
behaviors
are
going
to
be
the
same
as
someone
else
who
has
the
same
variant,
right?
Okay.
So
it's
not
always
really
easy
to
like
check
the
boxes.
Um
and
then,
you
know,
also
because
symptoms
can
begin,
you
know,
so
much
earlier,
you
know,
in
their
40s
or
even
as
young
as
in
their
20s,
you
don't
automatically
think
it's
dementia
and
you
try
to
rule
other
things
out
first.
So
you
can
go
a
long
time
without
a
proper
diagnosis,
and
that
can
impact
your
relationships,
your
career,
everything.
Um,
and
then
even
when
you
do
finally
try
to
get
a
diagnosis,
um,
there
can
be
a
lot
of
misdiagnosis.
People
um,
it's
frequently
misdiagnosed
as
Alzheimer's
or
psychiatric
disorder,
like
depression
or
bipolar
disorder.
Um,
with
the
movement,
um,
the
movement
variants,
it
looks,
it
can
look
like
Parkinson's.
So
um,
they
can
miss
the
true
underlying
diagnosis.

Which Doctors And Tools Help

SPEAKER_00
5:06

So,
what
type
of
doctor
should
somebody
go
to?
Should
they
start
with
the
neurologist
or
neuropsychiatrist?
Where
where
should
they
even
start
if
they're
suspecting
that
their
loved
one
just
isn't
quite
themselves?
Yeah,
that's
a
that's
great.

SPEAKER_01
5:20

Um
yeah,
so
if
sometimes
if
you
go
to
your
primary
care
physician,
you
might
get
referred
to
a
mental
health
clinician
or
someone
to
kind
of
be
dealing
with
some
of
the
symptoms
that
look
like
something
else.
Um,
but
we
do
know
that
neurologists,
that's
the
way
to
go.
Okay.
Um,
and
actually
on
AFTD's
website.
So
if
anybody
is
thinking,
is
this
happening
to
my
loved
one
or
is
this
happening
to
me,
right?
If
you're
noticing
weird
like
symptoms
in
yourself,
um,
AFTD
offers
uh
diagnostic
checklists
on
our
website,
and
you
can
go
through
and
see
how
much
of
it
applies
to
you,
and
you
can
take
that
with
you
to
your
doctor.
So
you
might
have
a
neurologist
that
you
can
say,
that's
wonderful.
Um,
if
not,
you
could
go
to
your
primary
care
doctor
and
take
that
with
you.
Um,
we
also
have
a
locator
tool
on
our
website
that
has
FTD
specialized
medical
centers
that
are,
that
are
listed
there
too.
So
you
might
be
able
to
find
one
close
enough
to
you.
Um,
but
we
do
know
people
travel
pretty
far
sometimes
to
find
a
specialist
uh
that
would
help
them.

SPEAKER_00
6:33

And
I
did
notice
those
checklists
on
the
website.
I
thought
they
were
pretty
awesome
because
there's
they're
so
simple
to
you
know
to
print
out
and
check
with
it.

SPEAKER_01
6:41

Yeah,
yeah.
And
it
really
gives
you
the
language
to
use
because
sometimes
um
I
think
you
know,
like
as
a
lay
person,
as
someone
without
medical
training,
you
don't
always
know
what
to
say
to
describe
what
you're
seeing
in
your
loved
one,
um,
to
really
have
it
hit
home
with
your
doctor.
So
this
is
really
helpful.
That
kind
of
like
translates
the
behaviors
or
the
issues
and
the
symptoms
to
make
it
um
work
with
your
doctor
so
they
can
understand

Genetics, Testing, And Counseling

SPEAKER_01
7:08

it.

SPEAKER_00
7:08

And
now,
how
uh
how
do
genetics
play
a
role
in
the
form
of
dementia?
Because
I
know
anybody
that's
had
a
family
member
with
any
type
of
dementia,
you
you
start
to
worry
like,
am
I
gonna
get
it?
You
know,
do
you
think
it
plays
a
role
in
this
particular
one
or
or
are
we
not
sure
yet?

SPEAKER_01
7:26

So
we
know
that
in
in
over
half,
about
60%
of
people
who
are
diagnosed
with
FTD,
there's
no
one
else
in
the
family
with
FTD
or
related
conditions.
So
we
refer
to
this
as
sporadic
or
apparently
sporadic
because
we
don't
know
the
true
underlying,
we
don't
know
all
of
the
genetic
causes.
So
we're
still
learning,
research
is
still
moving
forward.
Um,
but
we
do
know
that
about
more
than
half,
60%
are
are
not
um
associated
with
uh
a
genetic
underlying
cause.
Um
but
in
40%
of
the
cases,
we
know
that
there's
a
family
history
of
dementia
or
a
related
neurological
condition.
Um
we've
we
call
that
familial
FTD.
Okay.
And
within
that,
there
is
a
greater
likelihood
of
being
able
to
find
um
a
genetic
variant
that's
associated.
So
of
you
know,
of
all
of
the
cases
of
FTD,
they
will
find
15
to
20%
of
people
do
have
an
underlying
genetic
cause.
Um,
so
it's
not
a
whole
lot,
but
it's
definitely
um
prevalent.

SPEAKER_00
8:38

Okay.
But
I
mean,
yeah,
I
mean,
you're
always
worried,
like,
and
I
know
that
there,
I
know
for
the
other,
excuse
me,
I
know
there's
the
other
types
of
dementia,
there's
like
a
blood
test
or
something
you
could
take.
And
I
always
think,
do
I
want
to
know?
I
don't
know.
You
know,
it's
kind
of
scary
either
way
with
it.

SPEAKER_01
8:54

But
yeah,
and
you
know,
what
we
know
is
that
because
diagnosis
can
be
challenging,
um,
and
they
are
working,
like
the
res
biomarker
research
is
happening.
So
we
are
really
hopeful
that,
you
know,
we
know
like
with
the
Alzheimer's
biomarker
test,
like
you
know
that
that
can
rule
it
out
for
people,
which
is
it's
helpful
to
know
because
if
you
get
the
proper
diagnosis,
it
can
lead
you
to
the
proper
support,
the
proper,
you
know,
the
right
treatments,
the
right
if
there,
you
know,
as
research
is
is
moving
forward
and
advancing,
it
can
connect
you
to
be
able
to
participate
in
the
right
research.
So
if
that's
what
you
want
to
do.
So
that's
um,
yeah,
it's
such
a
hard
decision
though.
And
um,
you
make
a
really
good
point.
Like,
um
you
don't
know
if
you
want
to
know,
or
there
are
pros
and
there
are
cons.
Um,
so
AFTD
does
recommend
that
everybody
meets
with
a
genetic
counselor
um
who's
diagnosed
with
FTD
because
they
can
help
walk
you
through
that
decision
making.
Um,
just
because
you
meet
with
a
genetic
counselor
doesn't
mean
you're
gonna
get
a
test,
but
it
helps
you
figure
out
if
that's
the
right
choice
for
you.

SPEAKER_00
10:06

And
when
you
you
said
like
movement,
so
like
what
are
out
of
the
ordinary
like
movements?

Movement And Language Warning Signs

SPEAKER_00
10:12

Because
you
know,
we
all
like
kind
of
trip
or
fall
or
you
know,
have
those
types
of
things,
but
when
should
you
like
kind
of
get
concerned
on
the
movement
part?

SPEAKER_01
10:21

So
because
FTD
and
and
because
it's
a
progressive
neurological
disease,
you're
going
to
see
things
progress.
You
will
see,
you
know,
it
might
start
out
like
um
with
some
stiffness,
um,
neck
stiffness,
or
tripping,
not
being
able
to
orient
in
space,
falls,
things
like
that.
But
when
it
when
you're
seeing
it
happen
more
and
more,
is
when
you
really
should
pay
attention.
Um
and
that's
something
when
you
would
want
to
talk
to
a
doctor
or
explore,
you
know,
the
diagnostic
checklists.

SPEAKER_00
10:58

Okay.
And
I
also
noticed
when
I
was
on
the
website,
there's
it,
there's
other
uh
conditions
that
kind
of
go
along
with
this,
with
it.
Like
was
it
aphasia
and
a
few
other
ones?
Is
are
is
that
pretty
common
for
someone
then
to
have
like
two
different
ones?

FTD Subtypes Under One Umbrella

SPEAKER_01
11:14

Yeah,
so
I
think
what
you're
talking
about
is
the
subtypes
of
FTD,
so
different
kinds
of
ways
it
can
present,
right?
Um
so
for
there's
a
behavioral
variant
where
you
see
the
personality
changes
and
apathy
or
judgment.
Um
and
then
with
aphasia,
primary
progressive
aphasia
is
more
um
language
and
communication
symptoms.
Um
so
you
could
be
losing
the
meaning
of
words,
or
um,
you
could
know
the
meaning
of
words
and
know
exactly
what
you
want
to
say,
but
you
just
can't
say
it.
You
can't
find
the
word,
um,
or
it
just
doesn't,
your
sentences
don't
look
the
way
they
used
to.
Um
and
there's
also
primary
progressive
apraxia
of
speech,
which
is
kind
of
similar
to
um
that
has
a
little
bit
of
movement
because
it's
the
part
of
the
brain
that
controls
the
muscle
that
makes
your
mouth
make
the
words.
So
you
can't
make
the
words
anymore,
okay.
Um,
but
you
still
know
what
you
want
to
say.
Um,
and
then
there
are
a
couple
other
the
movement
disorders.
Uh,
we're
looking
at
corticobasal
syndrome,
CBS,
um,
that
affects
movement.
Um,
you
see
um
symptoms
that
resemble
Parkinson's.
So
some
that
again,
that
that's
sometimes
part
of
the
diagnostic
challenge
is
that
people
think
that
it's
Parkinson's,
um,
but
then
um,
but
it's
actually
under
the
FTD
umbrella.
Um,
progressive
supernuclear
palsy
is
another
one
of
the
movement,
um
the
movement
variants.
Um,
you'll
see
stiffness,
um
poor
balance,
and
then
also
you
also
see
like
um
a
progressive
kind
of
like
inability
to
move
your
eyes
or
opening
or
closing
your
eyes.
So
all
of
like
it's
there's
so
many
things
that
could
that
fall
under
it.
So
it
is
a
lot
to
take
in.
Um,
but
if
you're
if
you're
experiencing
that
or
your
loved
one
is
experiencing
that,
it
might
be
uh
progressive
uh
supernuclear
palsy
or
PSP.
Um
and
then
also
FTD
ALS.
So
um
they
FTD
and
ALS
can
occur
in
the
same
person.
Um
sometimes
we'll
most
of
the
time
when
that
happens,
you
do
see
symptoms
of
FTD
first,
um,
and
then
they're
followed
by
the
motor
symptoms
with
ALS
afterwards.
Wow.
That's
a
lot.

SPEAKER_00
13:53

Yeah,
it's
a
lot,
it's
a
it's
a
lot.
It's
a
lot,
it
is
a
lot.
Uh
yeah.
How
common
is
this
particular
this
this
how
common
is
FTD?

SPEAKER_01
14:05

Um,
you
know,
it's
considered
a
rare
form
of
dementia.
Um,
we
know
there
was
a
study
that
is
from
2011,
so
it's
pretty
long
ago.
But
it
suggested
between
50
and
60,000
people
in
the
US
have
it.
Um
that
was
a
long
time
ago.
And
we
also
know
that
with
misdiagnosis
and
underdiagnosis,
that's
probably
not
a
completely
accurate
reflection.
Um,
but
it's
um
we
know
that
with
more
understanding,
more
awareness,
um,
more
education
for
healthcare
professionals,
we're
getting
a
better
understanding
of
how
many
people
do
have
FTD.
But
yeah,
it
is
still
considered
a
rare,
um,
disease.

SPEAKER_00
14:53

Can
because
I
know
somebody
can
have
mixed
dementia
as
well.
Like
maybe
they
start
with,
say,
vascular
dementia
or
Alzheimer's.
Can
they
then
get
symptoms
of
FTD
too
as
it
progresses?

SPEAKER_01
15:07

Yeah,
you
know,
with
um
we
what
we
do
know
with
FTD
and
the
progression
of
FTD
itself
is
that
you
could
start
with
symptoms
that
present
like
the
behavioral
variant
and
it
would
eventually
move
into
other
parts
of
the
brain.
Um,
so
then
you
will
see
other
like
language
or
communication
symptoms
or
movement
symptoms
and
the
same
thing,
like
vice
versa.
Um,
and
you
do
you
can
see
that
very
similarly
in
mixed
dementia.

SPEAKER_00
15:35

Okay.

When A Loved One Lacks Insight

SPEAKER_00
15:36

So
this
is
a
question
probably
not
just
for
FTD,
but
anybody
who
has
a
loved
one
with
dementia.
But
I
love
this
question
on
your
website.
Why
does
my
loved
one
uh
can't
why
can't
they
acknowledge
their
FTD
and
the
impact
on
the
family?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01
15:55

You
know,
that
one
is
such
that's
so
difficult
for
caregivers.
Um,
and
we're
also
really
learning
that
it's
difficult
for
persons
who
are
diagnosed.
Um
so
the
term
that
we
use
for
this
is
called
anasygnosia.
That
means
a
lack
of
insight
into
their
own
condition.
So,
you
know,
it's
it
can
be
on
a
spectrum,
um,
but
it's
not
denial.
And
it
feels
like
denial
and
it
feels
like
manipulation.
So
it
is
just
so
hard
for
care
partners
and
family
members
to
witness
that
in
their
loved
one
if
it
just
seems
like
you're
saying,
here's
here's
the
medical,
here's
your
record,
and
it
says
you
have
FTD.
Um,
but
their
loved
one
says
that
nothing
is
wrong
with
me.
I
don't
know
what
you're
talking
about.
I
I
don't
do
that.
Um
so
it's
something
that's
really,
really
difficult,
and
it
is
a
it
is
a
common
symptom.
Um,
but
again,
it's
it's
truly
part
of
the
disease.
Someone
with
who's
who's
experiencing
this
really
truly
can't
help
it.
Um
but
we
work,
you
know,
with
care
partners
to
support
them
as
they
face
it
and
adapt
to
it.
Um,
they
deserve
that
support
and
validation.
And
um
it's
also
part
of
the
diagnostic
challenge,
too,
because
if
somebody
doesn't
believe
that
something
is
wrong
with
them,
they
truly
can't
see
that
something's
wrong
with
them.
It
really
makes
it
difficult
for
them
to
agree
to
go
to
a
doctor
and
get
evaluated.
And
so
that's
something
that
AFTD's
helpline
staff
is
really
good
at
working
with
family
members,
care
partners,
um,
to
talk
about
like
what
are
different
strategies
you
can
use
to
approach
this
symptom
because
it
is
it's
really,
really
difficult.
Um
and
one
another
thing
is
really
joining
a
support
group
because
you
can
connect
with
other
people
who
are
going
through
this
too,
and
you
feel
like
so
much
less
alone
in
this
in
this
part
of
it.

SPEAKER_00
18:07

My
mom
had
that
symptom,
even
though
she
wasn't
diagnosed
with
FTD.
She
she
ended
up
uh
they
they
said
she
was
diagnosed
with
mild
to
severe
dementia,
and
actually
on
her
death
certificate,
they
listed
vascular
dementia.
But
it
was
when
I
finally
went
on
the
Alzheimer's
Association
website,
and
I
saw
I
can
never
say
that
word,
but
I
saw
what
it
was,
and
I
was
like,
that's
her.
Like
she's
she's
not
in
denial,
she
just
thinks
everything's
fine.
And
then
my
dad
had
a
hard
time
with
it,
you
know,
to
admit
it.
And
you
could
not
say
the
word
demonstra
around
her,
she
would
get
so
upset,
you
know.
So
we
just
never
did,
you
know,
and
it
it
took
it
does
take
a
while
to
accept
that
that
they're
not
fighting
you.
They
just
really
don't
understand
that
this
is
what's
happening
to
them.

SPEAKER_01
18:58

Yeah,
absolutely.
And
it
is
one
of
those
things
um
that
we
do
really
try
to
support
caregivers
and
um
family
and
friends
and
um
and
persons
who
people
who
are
diagnosed
too,
because
they
they
can
sometimes
see
it.
The
lack
of
insight
doesn't
mean
like
a
complete
lack
of
insight
all
the
time.
Um,
it's
a
spectrum.
So
sometimes
people
can
see,
like
they
do
know
they
have
FTD,
but
they
don't,
they
may
not
be
able
to
see
everything
that
is
happening
from
the
care
partner's
perspective.
So
it
can,
it's
just
devastating
for
them
too.
Um,
I
think
the
more
we
get
to
understand
what
it's
like
to
live
with
a
diagnosis,
we
are
developing
much
more
compassionate
responses
to
each
other
um
and
just
being
able
to
be
there
for
each
other
because
it
is
it's
really,
really
hard
for
families
to
to
address
this
symptom.

SPEAKER_00
19:55

It
is.
It's
it's
very,
it's
very,
very
difficult.
So

The Hard Conversation About Driving

SPEAKER_00
20:00

the
question
of
driving
always
comes
up.
So
when
do
you
step
in
as
a
caregiver
and
say,
I
don't
think
you
should
be
driving
anymore?

SPEAKER_01
20:11

Yeah,
that's
a
really
difficult,
it's
a
difficult
situation.
I
mean,
like
we
talked
about
with
anasygnosia
too,
that
how
can
you
tell
somebody
that
they
shouldn't
be
driving
if
they
don't
even
realize
that
what's
happening
is
actually
happening.
Um
but,
you
know,
because
the
simp
some
of
the
symptoms
of
um
FTD
include
impaired
judgment
and
disinhibition
and
anasygnosia,
um,
that
really
does
raise
red
flags
around
safe
driving.
Um
but
it
is
such
an
individual
decision.
So
I
do
think
we
recommend
um
that
families
consult
with
their
physician
for
support,
navigating
navigating
the
situation
because
um
it
can
be
really
hard.
Um,
and
then
we
do
also
recommend
that
people
call
the
helpline
to
talk
about
different
strategies
to
prevent
harm
or
prevent,
you
know,
accidents
or
or
danger
and
stuff.
And
how
can
you
kind
of
navigate
this
very
sensitive
and
and
tricky
part
of
the
disease?

SPEAKER_00
21:13

I
was
grateful
my
mom,
well,
my
mom
was
never
she
never
liked
to
drive
anyway,
you
know,
she
only
liked
to
drive
local.
And
she
I
think
it's
when
she
she
kind
of
knew
maybe
something
wasn't
right,
but
she
couldn't
admit
it.
My
dad
had
bought
a
car
and
she
was
with
him
when
she
bought
the
car,
but
then
she
just
decided
that,
you
know,
he
bought
this
car,
she
hated
this
car,
this
car
was
too
big,
she
was
never
gonna
drive
this
car,
and
that
was
it.
She
just
wouldn't
drive
anymore.
And
I
looking
back,
I
think
that
was
probably
her
way
of
realizing,
you
know,
maybe
she
shouldn't
drive
anymore.
Cause
it
was
just
like
out
of
the
blue.
She
was
like,
I
hate
this
car,
I'm
not
gonna
do
I'm
not
doing
this.
And
we're
like,
Okay,
okay,
uh,
with
it.
Now,
my
dad,
on
the
other
hand,
who's
gonna
be
80,
uh,
I
don't
know.
That
could
be
a
little
bit
of
a
fight
with
him
with
the
driving.
I
don't
know.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01
22:01

Yeah,
it
is
hard.
I
do
think
that
a
a
physician
can
really
help
kind
of
navigate
it
and
figure
out
like,
do
you
take
the
do
you
go
to
the
DMV?
Do
you,
you
know,
like
different,
different,
just
different
ways
to
approach
it.
And
each
person
is
so
different,
right?
So
she
was
like,
I'm
not
going
to
do
this
anymore.
Right.
Other
people
still
really
truly
want
to
drive.
And
that's
your
freedom.
That's
your
autonomy.
Oh,
right.
Um,
so
when
so
many
other
things
are
being
taken
from
you,
that
it's
you
can
really
understand
why
it's
so
hard
to
do
to
get
that.

SPEAKER_00
22:32

For
sure.
So
do
you
does
traumatic
brain
injury
have
any
effect
with
FTD?

TBI Risk And Disease Progression

SPEAKER_00
22:41

Do
you
think
do
they
think
that
might
be
a
cause
of
it?

SPEAKER_01
22:45

So
um
FTD
is
a
brain
disease.
Um
it's
not
thought
that
it's
associated
with
a
single
injury
or
a
trauma.
Um
most
people
with
a
traumatic
brain
injury
don't
develop
FTD.
Um,
and
most
people,
a
lot
of
people
with
FTD
don't
have
a
TBI
history.
So
um,
you
know,
it
sometimes
if
it's,
you
know,
um
repeated
severe
head
injuries
could
be
associated
with
FTD,
but
it
doesn't
imply
that
that's
what
caused
it.
Um
just
kind
of
raises
your
risk
factors,
um,
but
that's
not
necessarily
um
associated
directly.

SPEAKER_00
23:32

And
what
should
somebody
expect
as
the
degree
as
the
disease
progresses?
You
know,
like
especially
if
you
catch
it
a
little
early,
you
know.

SPEAKER_01
23:42

Yeah,
um,
so
with
progression,
with
FTD,
like
you
know,
I
said
earlier
that
for
one
person
it's
different
from
other
people,
you
know.
And
one
of
the
things
we
say
is
if
you've
met
one
person
with
FTD,
you've
met
one
person
with
FTD.
Right.
So
we
can't
always
predict
what
it
will
look
like
for
everybody.
Um
sometimes
it
can
be
very
quick.
Um,
and
sometimes
people
can
live
with
a
diagnosis
for
longer
than
a
decade.
Okay.
Um,
sometimes
20
years.

SPEAKER_00
24:15

Oh
wow.

SPEAKER_01
24:16

Um,
so
you
don't
always
know
when
you
get
a
diagnosis
what
that
will
look
like.
Um,
but
you
can
expect
that
as
the
disease
progresses,
um,
it
can
go,
it
will
broaden
from
just
one
area
of
your
brain
um
to
other
parts
of
the
brain
and
areas
of
functioning.
So
if
you
started
um
out
noticing
movement
symptoms,
it
might
progress
to
behavior
symptoms
um
as
time
over
time.
Um,
but
yeah,
the
journey
is
so
different
for
everyone
in
that,
in
that
way.
Um
and
it
can
be,
of
course,
devastating
to
get
a
diagnosis.
Um,
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
can
help
with
the
progression
of
FTD
or
really
any
um
any
cause
for
dementia
is
is
palliative
care.
Um,
you
know,
like
a
real
holistic
approach
to
care
that
includes
the
needs
and
and
desires
of
the
person
diagnosed.
Um,
it
prior
it
preserves
dignity
and
autonomy
for
as
long
as
possible.
Um
and
you
know,
we
do
hear
from
people
who've
been
diagnosed
themselves
that
they
feel
really
overlooked
and
discarded
and
alone
after
receiving
a
diagnosis.
And
palliative
care
is
just
such
a
wonderful
approach
to
holistic
care
that
they
really
do
take
see
the
person
for
who
they
are,
you
know.
Um,
so
not
that
that
will
change
the
progression
of
the
disease,
but
it
does
help
somebody
feel
more
heard
um
and
respected
and
honored
through
the
process.

SPEAKER_00
25:59

And
I
agree
with
you.
Uh,
you
know,
I
think
the
palliative
care
people
push
off,
they
think
that's
only
for
like
at
the
very,
very
end,
but
it
isn't.
You
can
bring
them
in
earlier.
And
most
of
the
time,
too,
they
help
the
caregivers
too.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01
26:14

With
yeah,
and
if
you
are
helping,
if
you're,
you
know,
preserving
dignity
and
autonomy
of
somebody
feels
actually
seen,
um,
it
really
does
help
with
like
escalated
behaviors
or
feeling
really
stressed,
and
it
helps
with
stress
in
the
home
too.
And
you're
right,
like
if
the
caregiver
feels
like
they're
also
part
of
it
and
that
they,
you
know,
and
they
see
their
loved
one
feeling
respected,
then
they
also
feel
um
a
little
bit
of
comfort.
It
helps
um
and
just
it
helps
something
that
is
so
difficult
to
face
and
difficult
to
go
through,
um,
be
a
little
less

Palliative Care And Symptom Treatment

SPEAKER_01
26:48

so.

SPEAKER_00
26:48

Now,
are
there
any
approved
treatments
or
medications
right
now
on
the
market
for
FTD?

SPEAKER_01
26:54

Yeah,
currently
no.
Um
there
is
research
being
done,
of
course.
Um,
but
for
symptom
management,
there
are
some
medications.
So
if
you
have,
um
if
you're
working
with
your
doctor,
um,
your
neurologist,
you
can
like
if
there
are
symptoms
that
are
challenging,
because
a
lot
of
the
symptoms
with
um
FTD
are
very
difficult.
Um,
so
that
you
know,
you
can
you
can
talk
to
your
doctor
about
um
what
kind
of
medication
can
help
with
those
symptoms.

SPEAKER_00
27:22

And
you
mentioned
uh
support
groups,
and
I
noticed
you
have
those
listed
on
your
website
as
well,
correct?

Support Groups, Helpline, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01
27:30

Yes,
we
do.
And
you
know,
support
is
such
a
lifesaver.
Um,
we
encourage
everyone
to
build
support
early,
however
that
looks
like
for
you.
Um,
we
know
many
caregivers,
um,
a
lot
of
caregivers
don't
even
reach
out
to
our
helpline
until
they're
already
drowning.
So
um
we
definitely
encourage
early
looking
into
what
options
you
have.
Um,
grief
is
just
underlining
throughout
the
FTD
journey.
And
um,
it
really
does
help
that
uh
having
a
support
group.
Some
people
are
resistant
or
they
feel
like,
oh,
I'm
not
into
going
sitting
around
in
a
support
group
and
talking
about
my
feelings.
But
um
we
really
encourage
people
to
try
it.
There
are
real
practical
tips
um
and
and
resources
that
are
shared
in
these
meetings.
And
also
with
FTDs,
especially,
it
is
so
misunderstood
in
like
the
among
the
general
public
that
when
you
find
other
people
who
are
who
are
going
through
this
and
facing
this
together,
that
you
feel
so
much
less
alone.
Um
and
can
really,
and
it's
it's
part
of
respite
too,
you
know,
you're
taking
that
hour
to
talk
to
other
people
who
are
going
through
it.
And
it
really
can
kind
of
help
bring
you
down
um
from
all
the
way
up
here
in
the
stresses
of
caregiving.
Um
and
we
do
also,
so
we
do
have
groups
for
um
for
caregivers
throughout
the
country.
We
do
have
some
that
meet
in
person.
We
have
a
lot
that
meet
virtually
because
that's
really
easy
to
access
for
caregivers.
You
don't
always
have
to
find
somebody
to
take
care
of
your
loved
one.
Um
and
then
we
also
do
have
groups
for
per
for
people
who
are
diagnosed
that
they
can
join.
Because
we
have
seen
in
the
last
few
years
a
huge
increase
in
people
getting
diagnosed
a
little
bit
earlier,
and
they
really
want
that
support
too.
So
um
we've
we've
had
we
do
have
groups
for
people
who
are
diagnosed,
and
and
we
want
to
be
there
and
support
them
too,
because
it's
so
hard
to
receive
that
diagnosis
and
then
what
you
know,
what
do
I
do
with
this?
So
um
coming
together
is
a
really
good
thing.

SPEAKER_00
29:44

And
I
think
one
thing,
and
and
I've
joined
different
support
groups,
and
I
think
what
a
lot
of
people
don't
realize
is
that
when
you
go
to
the
support
group,
whether
it's
virtual
or
it's
in
person,
you
don't
have
to
say
anything
if
you
don't
want
to.
You
know,
you
can
just
listen.
Yeah,
and
I
have
found
I
agree
with
you
a
hundred
percent
that
when
I
started
talking
to
other
family
members
that
their
family
you
know,
their
loved
ones
had
dementia,
there's
this
instant
bond,
and
you
like
just
understand
what
they're
saying.
And
you
even
can
laugh
at
times
about
things
that
they
said
or
did,
but
you
just
they
just
understand.
You
don't
have
to
explain
everything,
you
know.
They
and
it
it
does
make
you
feel
better.

SPEAKER_01
30:25

Yeah,
and
I
think
um
one
of
the
that's
somebody
just
recently
said
this
to
me
that
that
it's
her
tribe,
right?
That
she's
she
went
to
this
group
and
it's
those
are
her
people.
So
they
meet,
you
know,
outside
of
group,
yeah
um,
yeah,
and
and
get
together.
And
it's
just
having
people
you
don't
have
to
explain
yourself
to,
um,
and
that
there's
no
judgment,
right?
And
and
unfortunately,
some
of
the
symptoms
of
FTD
can
really
be
stigmatizing.
Um,
and
people
hesitate
to
talk
about
it.
But
if
you're
in
a
group
of
other
people
who
are
going
through
the
same
thing,
um,
even
if
it's
a
different,
if
it
looks
different
for
everyone,
you
know
you're
not
gonna
get
judged.
Um,
and
that
you're
there
truly
because
you
love
your
person
and
you
want
to
help
them
and
you
want
to
be
there
for
them,
but
you
just
need
to
figure
out
how
do
I
cope
with
this
in
a
way
that
is
healthy
and
safe.
Um
and
you
know,
with
the
FTD
support
groups,
because
it's
uh
a
leading
cause
of
younger
onset
dementia,
a
lot
of
care
partners
are
younger
and
they
sometimes,
you
know,
they
might
try
another
dementia
group,
a
support
group,
and
feel
like
they're
not
around
people
that
get
them
or
that
are
understanding
what
they're
going
through.
So
finding
an
FTD
support
group
can
be
really
helpful
for
you
if
you
don't
kind
of
fit
like
what
you
think
of
when
you
think
of
a
dementia
support
group.
Um,
so
we
do
have
like
groups
for
parents
who
have
young
kids
in
the
home
and
their
spouse
has
it.
Um
and
they,
you
know,
just
and
young
adults
who
are
caring
for
their
parent.
Um,
we
have
a
group
for
17
to
26-year-olds
who
can
come
and
and
talk
to
each
other
and
get
support.
So
um,
yeah,
we
have
a
whole
lot
of
groups
on
our
website.
Um,
it's
all
there.
But
also,
if
you're
feeling
overwhelmed
and
I
just
can't
even
look
at
this
list
of
groups,
you
can
call
the
helpline.
And
and
we
know
that
what
sometimes
caregivers
are
just
like,
I
can't
even
do
that.
I
can't
take
that
step.
But
the
helpline
is
there.
Um,
and
I
just,
you
know,
just
to
share
their
number,
I
want
to
shout
them
out.
But
their
phone
number
is
866-507-7222,
or
you
can
email
them
at
info
at
theaftd.org.
Um,
and
you
just
put
it
out
there,
I
need
a
support
group,
and
they'll
help
you
find
the
right
one
for
you.
Yeah,
it's
it's
they
try
to
make
it
as
easy
as
possible.

SPEAKER_00
33:02

And
I'll
make
sure
I
put
that
on
there.
Yeah,
because
sometimes
as
a
caregiver,
you
have
so
many
lists
going
on
that
you're
like,
I
just
can't
right
now.
But
if
you
I
know
something
simple
that
you're
like,
okay,
I
can
call
this
number
or
I
can
send
this
email,
and
it
just
helps
so
much
with
all
of
that
for
it.
Um,
and
I
know
we
could
talk
forever
and
on
about
this
because
it's
such
an
interesting
um,
it's
it's
different
than
a
lot
of
the
other
dementias,
but
yet
it
kind
of
falls
into
play
with
it.
And
I
know
this
one
too,
it's
been
in
the
news
a
little
bit
more
with
some
other
celebrities,
famous
people
that
have
we've
heard
they've
been
diagnosed
with
this.
So
like
people
start
talking
about
it.
And
it
should
have
been
talked
about
anyway.
All
the
dementia
should,
yeah.

SPEAKER_01
33:42

Yeah,
that's
but
it
is
really
the
getting
that
awareness
and
and
more
public
awareness
that
people
do
under
they're
like,
that
sounds
familiar.
So
it
is,
it
is
helpful
though.
And
and
we
and
with
that,
we
are
seeing
an
earlier
diagnosis
in
the
in
the
disease.
So
that
is
that
is
just
helpful
for
families
um
when
they
get
that
earlier
accurate
diagnosis.

SPEAKER_00
34:04

Yeah,
because
sometimes
you're
like,
what
is
wrong
with
this
person?
They're
you
know,
and
you
just
you
don't
always
think
right
away,
it
could
be
something
really
you
know,
neurological
or
uh
neurodegenerate
uh
Yeah,
you
think
it
could
be
a
midlife
crisis,
right?

SPEAKER_01
34:21

Or
like,
you
know,
I
guess
I'm
just
gonna
get
divorced.

SPEAKER_00
34:25

But
it's
actually
a
brain
disease.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah,
with
it.
Because,
you
know,
uh
with
all
the
dementia,
some
you
know,
sometimes
they
lose
their
inhibition
and
they
say
things
and
they
do
things,
and
you're
like,
oh
my
god,
what
is
going
on?
You
know,
and
to
help
figure
that
out.

SPEAKER_01
34:40

It's
so
hard
not
to
take
that
personally
too
when
it's
yeah,
when
it's
someone
that
you've
loved
for
like
20
years,
and
then
all
of
a
sudden
this
change
is
happening
and
you
don't
understand
it.

SPEAKER_00
34:51

Exactly.

AFTD Website, Conference, Closing

SPEAKER_00
34:52

So
the
website
is
theftd.org.
Um,
it's
the
AFTD.

SPEAKER_01
34:59

Okay.
Yes.
The
A-A
G-A-F-T-D
dot
O-R-G.
Okay.
And
there's
so
much
information
on
the
website.
Um,
and
there's
also
like
on
the
homepage
and
on
every
page,
there's
a
a
button
for
the
helpline
up
in
the
upper
right-hand
corner.
Okay.
You
can
click
on
that.
You
can
even
schedule
a
call.
So
whatever
works
for
your
time,
you
don't
have
to
wait
for
a
call
back.
You
know
when
you're
gonna
get
your
call.
So
um
that's
definitely
a
great
option,
too.
Um,
and
then
there's
just
so
much
information.
We
have
um
a
ton
of
webinars.
Uh,
we
are
also
on
social
media,
so
um
that
is
something
that's
really
helpful
for
people
too.
We're
on
Instagram
and
on
Facebook,
um,
on
TikTok,
LinkedIn.
Um,
and
I'm
sure
that
I'm
forgetting
one
of
them
too,
but
um
there's
uh
the
the
information
is
there.
We
share
a
lot
of
updates
about
events,
um,
and
and
we
have
an
annual
education
conference
that
is
for
the
community.
Um,
and
also
we
see
a
lot
of
healthcare
professionals
come
too,
and
that's
where
you
really
get
to
know
um
what
the
lived
experience
is
like.
Um,
it
is
in
person
and
it's
also
virtual.
So
um
that's
in
May
every
year,
and
um
it's
free
to
attend.
So
um
it's
something
to
really
put
um
in
the
back
of
your
mind
if
you're
if
you're
thinking
about
it.
Um,
it's
very
informative,
but
it's
also
a
place
to
come
together
with
the
community
and
um
to
learn
more
about
you
know
different
resources
and
um
you
know
evidence-based
treatments
and
things
like
that.

SPEAKER_00
36:43

So
well,
that
that
is
awesome,
all
this
information.
So
I'll
make
sure
I
put
all
this
on
there
so
people
can
get
the
information
that
they
need.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
here
today.
I
I've
learned
so
much.
Thanks
for
having
me.
Yes,
I
have
learned
so,
so
much.
So,
like
I
said,
I'll
put
it
all
on
there.
So
hopefully
everybody
has
enjoyed
this
conversation
and
you
got
a
lot
of
information
as
well
for
this
particular
form
of
uh
dementia
and
neurodegenerative
diseases.
So
I
hope
you've
enjoyed
your
cup
of
tea,
your
cup
of
coffee,
or
if
you're
having
that
really
bad
day,
a
glass
of
wine,
and
please
join
us
for
another
edition
of
Patty's
Place.

Posted on

Getting Sober: “The First 90 Days” – FROM THE VAULT

Getting Sober: “The First 90 Days”: FROM THE VAULT

A Quick Note from the Coffee Shop:

If you notice something familiar in your feed over the next several weeks, Glenn and Mikey are on a brief medical sabbatical while Mikey rests and heals up following surgery to repair an abdominal aneurysm. To keep the coffee brewing and ensure our community doesn’t miss a beat, we’ve raided the vault to bring you an encore run of our “Best Of” catalog—handpicked straight from our all-time top download stats. Enjoy revisiting these essential conversations, thank you for keeping Mikey and the show in your prayers, and stay tuned—we will be back live in the coffee shop very soon!

Sober.Coffee Podcast Summary (Bonus #28)

Hosts: Mike & Glenn

Mike and Glenn open up the coffee shop to break down the reality of the first three months in recovery. Ninety days is the crucial habit driver—the proving ground where new living mechanisms, coping strategies, and daily reflexes are formed. Reflecting on their own early days and the recurring pain, confusion, and high relapse rates that affect newcomers, the hosts lay out a straightforward, honest roadmap of what to actually expect and how to survive the initial quarter.

The Brutal Honesty of Early Sobriety

  • The Golden Rules (1 & 1A): Rule one is simply don’t drink. Rule two is to become an absolute sponge—listen, observe, and learn.
  • Head vs. Heart: Mike admits he was the rare newcomer who walked into meetings taking furious notes out of sheer desperation. Glenn points out the trap many fall into: trying to make recovery an intellectual exercise in the head, when lasting change only takes root in the heart.
  • It’s Going to Be Uncomfortable: Significant transformation does not happen in 28 days. Expect emotional turmoil, physical aches, weird sleep, and feeling completely out of your own skin. Just like the first 90 days at the gym, you have to surrender to the awkwardness and embrace the soreness knowing what you are building toward. As their friend Dr. John famously noted: AA is not a feel-good program; it is a get-well program.

Essential Survival Tools for the First 90 Days

  • 90 Meetings in 90 Days: Immerse yourself fully in the environment. But avoid “sidewinder” attendance—don’t just show up to check a box, sit with your camera off, or judge people. Show up early, participate, help with readings, stay after to chat, and actually engage.
  • Find a Guide / Temporary Sponsor: If the formal word “sponsor” spooks you, just find a friend who has walked the path before you and can help you navigate the steps and room culture.
  • Sanitize Your Environment: Get alcohol completely out of your living space. Ditch the drug dealer’s number, stay out of bars, and steer clear of the people, places, and things tied to active addiction. If you hang around the barbershop long enough, you eventually get a haircut.
  • Prioritize Rest & Mindfulness: Early sleep cycles are completely disrupted. Prioritize sleep and give your nervous system a chance to reset. Glenn highlights using guided meditations (such as Michelle’s Sanctuary on YouTube) to silence late-night head noise.
  • Fill the Time Void: Going from drinking 12 hours a day to nothing leaves massive empty hours. Fill that space intentionally: attend back-to-back meetings, grab pizza between sessions, or join sober sports leagues like AA bowling, pickleball, or golf.
  • Halt Major Life Changes: Do not attempt to fix or rebuild your entire world in the first few weeks. Making major life upheavals early on is building a castle on a foundation of sand.

Closing Perspective Celebrate every single milestone—one day, one week, thirty days, and ninety days are massive victories that provide 100% proof that you can get through today. Most importantly, a 90-day reset isn’t reserved just for newcomers. Anyone slipping into old complacency or poor routines can commit to a fresh 90-day journey right now to realign their habits, health, and spiritual footing.